MovieChat Forums > Fantasia (1941) Discussion > Racist Controversy about Sunflower, yet....

Racist Controversy about Sunflower, yet...

posted 14 years ago by dalittleskittle1613
18 replies | jump to latest

...only one other person on this entire board has mentioned the one thing I have been thinking all along! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032455/board/thread/158746386?d=168349127 &p=1#168349127 Thank you, bjlevine)

Here we have a problem with a centaur being cut from a sequence due to the color of her skin and her actions associated with the facts that:

1. She is the only centaur of that color, and is THAT color
2. She is the only one acting as a servant to the other centaurs
3. She is the only one NOT portrayed as beautiful

YET, the scene also contains a mating sequence, in which every other centaur (including the two who are seemingly left out until the very end) ends up with a mate of similar color. Why is no one making a fuss about this? Are interracial couples still taboo? I think this is a double-standard. Why is it that our society is and was, since the 1960s, when the edited re-issues began, so concerned about making up for the racism that was portrayed against African American citizens in our nation's history through reverse racism and affirmative action, when they weren't the only ones who were discriminated against? (Just to be clear, I am not racist, sexist, or discriminatory in any way, I am simply making a point)

[–] dalittleskittle1613 14 years ago

If it is necessary to eliminate a character because of the color of her skin, then we should just eliminate the entire sequence completely, because it is also racist in its own right (not to mention sexist, don't even get me started on the objectification of the female centaurs and the one feeding the male centaur grapes). Better yet, let's just digitally change the colors of the centaurs themselves so that some of the couples are interracial.

Male centaur + Female centaur
Male centaur + Female centaur
Male centaur + Female centaur
Male centaur + Female centaur
Male centaur + Female centaur
Male centaur + (gasp) Female centaur

I have two reasons why the sequence, and film should be restored in its original entirety.

1. Historical accuracy of the original film (not to mention nostalgia)
2. Discrimination against inter-racial couples AND blatant racism can easily fit into the same category, and are both obvious in the scene, BUT one should not be chosen over the other in order of importance

There is one thing Disney will never do, and that is change the colors of the centaurs. The point of doing so would be considered moot. The least they can do is give us what has already been created.

[–] voltairecrazy 13 years ago

I don't think the color is a big deal, mostly because Fantasia in general is more of a work of art than anything. I always saw that the centaurs being paired up with others of the same color was because it looked better with similar colors. It's just a visual thing, nothing against interracial relationships. Also, it's probably not considered racist because no one has blue/green/purple skin.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Pyromania 13 years ago

I always preferred the centaurs the way they were because of my inherent OCD. As a child (the intended demographic), it never occurred to me that this was the least bit racist. I had friends of many colors (mostly black, while I'm white) and everything I knew about marriage and dating is that you hooked up with someone you loved and had a lot in common with.

...Don't look now, but I think the monotremes are out to get me...

[–] Pyromania 13 years ago

As a side note, (and from an adult perspective), I think the pegasus family balances this "racism" out.

I should probably tell the squirrels in my backyard that they're racist since the black squirrels only mate with black squirrels and the grey squirrels with grey squirrels.

...Don't look now, but I think the monotremes are out to get me...

[–] LilRed_RoRo 13 years ago

I don't think the color is a big deal, mostly because Fantasia in general is more of a work of art than anything. I always saw that the centaurs being paired up with others of the same color was because it looked better with similar colors. It's just a visual thing, nothing against interracial relationships. Also, it's probably not considered racist because no one has blue/green/purple skin.

I agree. I think it's just supposed to look pretty. I guess if you want to look into it you could say that it's supposed to show that they've found their other half which they have to show through the matching colours seeing as there's no dialogue, but tbh I think it's just supposed to look pretty.

Plus people also think Sunflower is racist because she looks like a gollywog doll...

[–] dogsoldier_spoon-1 13 years ago

I think it's all pretty ridiculous and people are just over analyzing a lot of things about this film (or actually just any film, as apparently Disney can only make racist films if I should believe some people). Especially since the movie was made in 1930s, it was a different time back then. Should we start to edit all films that could possibly be offensive in some way. That's messing with history and it's something that - in my opinion - you just don't do.

[–] vintage-13 13 years ago

Why does no one seem to notice the *other* black centaurs? A bit later after where sunflowers scenes used to be, right as Bacchus is being brought in, he's accompanied by two very "African" looking female centaurs who are black and half zebra instead of half horse. I'm not debating racism, or sexism, and personally I'm against censorship but I'm not debating that either. I'm just saying, there are more black centaurs, left in the film, and no one seems to notice them - let alone care.

I find that very interesting.

[–] Pyromania 13 years ago

I had forgotten about them! They were so freakin' beautiful. Zebrataurs kick-ass.

...Don't look now, but I think the monotremes are out to get me...

[–] tobian85 13 years ago

Zebrataurs kick-ass.

I find this really LOL-worthy. While I'm pretty sure your use of the "a" word refers to the human posterior, not to the four-footed/hooved mammal, it's worth bearing in mind that both horses and zebras are members of the same family as (jack)asses.

I've always loved the "zebra-taurs"--they are definitely the most beautiful of all that mythological "horsey" set.

Unfortunately, they don't appear to have any significant others. But they don't act like slaves; they are the honorable attendants of a god (even if he is a sozzled, buffoonish god) and they take their position seriously. They are the only ladies among the centaurs who keep their dignity intact and don't indulge in vulgar flirting.

Picking up his six-string, Ian took a deep breath and prepared to go into The Otherness.

[–] Poisoned_Dragon1964 12 years ago

Sunflower also appears in the Bacchus scene - she goes before his procession, and unrolls a red carpet leading to his throne.

§« The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters. »§

[–] Mithrandir-Olorin2 11 years ago

I don't see the colors of the other as representing "Race" the ugly little Negro Centur is just a needless oddity, and wile I'm no fan of censorship removing her doesn't hurt the piece at all. For the regular ones being the same color is simply symbolic of them being destined to be together.

"When the chips are down... these Civilized people... will Eat each Other"

[–] genevaporter 11 years ago

Not so. There are the zebra-centaur attendants of Dionysus. They are that color. They are acting as servants, but to a deity, not to other centaurs, and they are beautiful.

And people have noticed the color matching of the centaurs. Yeah, it is weird and suggestively problematic, but it is not nearly as offensive as the portrayal of Sunflower.

I remember a girl I babysat, when she played with Breyer horse, she paired the male and female couples by color. There seems to be a natural impulse to do that, particularly when all you have to base on who would be a good couple is their looks.

The girl has grown up since then, is not racist, and is not offended by interracial couples. She just didn't understand much about why people become attracted to each other back then, and has since then attained more knowledge of the mysterious world of attraction and romantic relationships.

[–] johnno74 11 years ago

Correction; Sunflower is not the only black centaurette in the Pastrol Symphony. What about them two centaurettes walking alongside Bacchus, the ones with the zebra bodies? They're black, ain't they? They was not edited out.

[–] Marmadukebagelhole 11 years ago

Those centaurs weren't insensitive, stereotypical characrerisations of the servants attending her "white" masters though.

It's the representation of Sunflower as a character which is not only insensitive but also incongruous to the concept of the centaurs as mythological creatures living in an idyllic, pastoral, myhotlogical landscape to have racially determined analogy with humans in that way.

Sunflower was a reflection of times that the picture was made which is otherwise absent in the rest of the No 6 section and in the rest of the picture. It's logical that Sunflower should be excised but I am also grateful that the fact that, thanks to the ongoing discussion, its inclusion has not been erased as if it never happened.

@Twitzkrieg - Glasgow's FOREMOST authority

[–] friendoffilm 11 years ago

Having seen the movie Fantasia a number of times, I honestly don't recall the "Sunflower" scene(s) at all. When I first saw Fantasia back in the fall of 1963, however, it was during the heyday of the Civil Rights Movement, so I wonder if the "Sunflower" scene(s) were cut from this film due to its being considered offensive to some people.

I also remember that they stopped showing another Disney movie called Song of the South during that same period, because that was considered offensive in many circles.

[–] 11 years ago

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