A Classic


I love this film. It has action, romance, comedy, and plenty of thrills. A great director in George Stevens with a fine cast that includes Cary Grant, Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Victor McLaglen, Joan Fontaine, and Sam Jaffe. It's not a politically correct film by today's standards, but as far as plot, direction, cinematography, and acting is concerned, I think it's top-notch. Gunga Din is indeed a classic and a film anyone can enjoy. Anyone else love this great piece of work?

"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

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I'll rent it next time I go to my local non-mainstream video retailer. I heard of it through The Party with Peter Sellers and it sounds like a classic.

"I've been living off toxic waste for years, and I'm fine! Just ask my other heads!"

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Forget all the so-called "postmodern," "multicultural," "blame America and the West first" poppycock: 'Gunga Din' deals with the same issues we who live in Enlightenment Liberal democracies face today with terrorism: a brutal murder cult that killed and terrorized millions of ordinary people throughout the Indian subcontinent as well as the few thousand (there were never more than a few thousand) Britishers who administered the Raj. In the film even the uneducated Din himself says more than once: "Very bad men." It doesn't take a university degree to know the difference between arbitrary, murderous thuggery - then AND now - and the rule of law.

Churchill had a horror of absenting India's people of the beneficent Raj because he knew its end would allow the region's religionists and cultists and ethnicities to slash murderously at each other's throats: indeed, in the wake of last viceroy's departure at least two million of the subcontinent's people were killed in some of the blodiest inter-ethnic and interreligious vengeful violence our planet has ever seen (funny how the proponents of "multiculturalism" deliberately and dogmatically fail to indict any but Europeans for such violence). So much for the "multiculturalist" nonsense about noble savages and the moral superiority of their cultures over that of the democratic, pluralist West.

Under the Raj British justice was administered much more universally and fairly than any such concept or reality has been able to be administered by the Indian subcontinent's inhabitants in the more than five decades since its departure: indeed Pakistan and India - as well as ethnicities and cults and mobs and terrorists within both of those geographical abstractions - are still wreaking lethal violence among themselves, with no end of such barbarism in sight.

And for all you Gandhi fans out there I point out that, for all his blindly over-celebrated "humanism," Gandhi never uttered so much as a single condemnatory syllable against India's most repellent and grossest injustice which continues almost completely intact into the third millenium, and which the Raj and Europeans did nothing to create or perpetuate: the wretched caste system that condemns millions upon millions to living every day of their lives in abject poverty and squalor and soul-crushing hopelessness. Nothing like this unmitigatable, inexcusable evil exists anywhere in the West. Nothing.

'Gunga Din' remains a great film for all the obvious cinematic reasons (e.g., prototypical/archetypal adventure film; superb writing, casting, acting, directing, &c.), but also because it faces the historic and ancient fact that there are some people whose barbarism and vile crimes make them deserving of the undying enmity of civilized people everywhere - even the enmity of those who merely carry water or swab WC's for their "multiculturally superior" caste-betters.

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PUSH the button MAX!!!













...these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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And for all you Gandhi fans out there I point out that, for all his blindly over-celebrated "humanism," Gandhi never uttered so much as a single condemnatory syllable against India's most repellent and grossest injustice which continues almost completely intact into the third millenium, and which the Raj and Europeans did nothing to create or perpetuate: the wretched caste system that condemns millions upon millions to living every day of their lives in abject poverty and squalor and soul-crushing hopelessness.

From Gandhi:
"Hinduism has sinned in giving sanction to untouchability."
Sounds like at least a syllable against the cast system.
I'm curious at to what syllable the Raj uttered against the caste system.

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"Hinduism has sinned in giving sanction to untouchability"

I'd be interested in knowing where this quotation came from, the only place I could find it was in "Gandhi" the movie. I'm not saying he didn't say it, just that I couldn't find it in print.

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I cant find the quote but "The Atlantic" mag has an Article by Christopher Hitchens (Jun 7 ,2011) which mentions his criticism of "untouchability" twice.

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are you actually basing your opinion of the "beneficient Raj" from a few lines you read in history class?

the Thuggees never really terrorized the British, as they seldom travelled alone on the roads that the Thugges frequented. yes there was bloody violence at Partition, and the reason that Europeans are blamed, is well because, for two hundred years, the British played one group against another (I'll credit them with a shrewd ability to govern), and then when they arbitrarily drew borders between India and Pakistan and left, violence was not unexpected. Of course, you fail to mention that the worst bloodletting happened in Punjab in 1946, when the British were still in full control of India.

European justice was administered fairly? are you referring to the immunity Europeans had in India, where natives could be spat upon while Europeans exacted terrible revenge for any slight grievance? don't forget it was only international pressure that forced the British to chastise General Dyer after he massacred innocents at Amritsar. or perhaps you chose to ignore that, feeling that he just "hunting some terrorists and adminstering European justice"? i hate to shatter your illusion, but there are courts in India and Pakistan. even though they're based on the British justice system, (and yes they're prone to corruption) they still function. much of the poverty was created by the British zamindar system, in which farmers were squeezed out of every cent they earned; the British didnt care as long as they got their tribute. anyone who failed to pay could be jailed or evicted. much of the capital India had in gold and jewelry was stolen, and the greatest jewels now sit in the Tower of London, yet you will not mention that.

finally, Gandhi did speak out repeatedly against the caste system. he was the among the first to advocate equal rights and called them Harijans, or "Children of God". he did more than you could ever do to end inter-caste and inter-ethnic violence in India, and it's a shame he was killed. so it's fine for you to sit there and glorify the Raj, but you have no idea of how bad overall it was for the subcontinent; above all, wouldn't you want to rule yourself instead of having foreigners run your country?

in conclusion, i do agree that this was a good movie, and no more biased than any of its contemporary films, but i had to say this to counter your baseless allegations of the benefits of the Raj. i'm proud to be an American, but if you're going to talk sh*t about India and praise the exploiters, at least get your facts right, please.


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I don't know about this movie. I haven;t seen the whole thing in alog time but the other night i caught the tail end for a few minutes. I don;t remember much of the whole movie but if the last parts are anything like the rest it was not a grate acted in movie. Cary grant is one of my favs in war type movies and what i caught at the end was one of the worst performances i have ever seen. Also from the other actors as well. I just don;t know how to discibe it. ALso the filming. There was one seen where where cary was stabed in the back for some reason at first with how the seen was shot it looked like he got stabed but for some rason the seen was shot from a diffren;t angle and the guy looked like he was 3 feet from cary and he was stabing in the air over his head instide of actualy anywhere near him. At the very least they could have stabed inbetween his arm and side of his body if they were going to cut to a diffren;t angle. Like i said i don;t remember much about the whole movie but what i saw the other day was prety bad. I hope it was just what i saw in that few minutes becuse i think i could realy enjoy that movie.

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It is definately the worst acting in Cary Grant's career. It seems to me that he spent all his energy trying [and failing dismally] to get the accent right, and forgetting about any actual acting.

A hallmark of George Stevens, in fact, seems to be to get the absolute worst performances from many of his actors. The editing is similarly pathetic. For the life of my I can't see how his stilted, highly uncinematic style is so broadly praised.

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"Churchill had a horror of absenting India's people of the beneficent Raj because he knew its end would allow the region's religionists and cultists and ethnicities to slash murderously at each other's throats . . . "

In what way is this more barbarous than the killing of Jews, Russsians, gypsies and the like by fellow Europeans? Or the internment of the Dutch by the Britishers in South Africa? How many times have the Europens gone to war at the slightest pretext? I forget. Piafredux, don't write licentious rubbish.

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I've read that Howard Hawks was supposed to direct Gunga Din. However, Bringing Up Baby (which was also at RKO) was a failure at the box-office and Hawks was replaced by George Stevens. I love the film, yet can't help but wonder what Howard Hawks would have done with this one.

"Dry your eyes baby, it's out of character."

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Hawks was set to direct, but given the boot. I'd also like to add, as others have, that Gandhi often spoke out against the caste system. Gandhi was a man that everyone should admire.

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The Raj and the famines of good governance

Between 24 million and 29 million Indians died in famines in the era of British good governance.

NO OTHER country in the world was quite as fortunate as ours, a Times of India editorial gushed in 1841. Talk of luck. Not only were we ruled by White Gentleman, the Times pointed out, we were ruled by White English Gentlemen. (It could have been the Dutch, you know.)

So committed were these Gentlemen to the governance of this heathen land, they "would do the utmost to protect our independence... " And this was not "superhuman or romantic.' After all, our rulers merely "act[ed] like English gentlemen of good common sense."

For the enslaved to choose between colonialisms is for the chicken to choose the sauce it prefers to be cooked in. Yet, some still cling to the notion that British colonialism was more benign than others.

When the Times (then called the Bombay Times and Journal of Commerce) ran that edit in 1841, it was, after all, owned by other White English gents.

That governance was certainly good for the British. Tax collections rose even as millions died of man-made famines. Like Bengal of 1770-72. The East India Company's own report put it simply. The famine in that province "exceeds all description." Close to ten million people had died, as Rajni Palme-Dutt pointed out in his remarkable book, India Today. The Company noted that more than a third of the populace had perished in the province of Purnea. "And in other parts the misery is equal."

Yet, Warren Hastings wrote to the directors of the East India Company in 1772: "Notwithstanding the loss of at least one-third of the inhabitants of this province, and the consequent decrease in cultivation, the net collections of the year 1771 exceeded even those of [pre-famine] 1768." Hastings was clear on why and how this was achieved. It was "owing to [tax collection] being violently kept up to its former standard."

The Company itself, as Palme Dutt observed, was smug about this. It noted that despite "the severity of the late famine and the great reduction of people thereby, some increase has been made" in the collections.

Between 24 million and 29 million Indians, maybe more, died in famines in the era of British good governance. Many of these famines were policy-driven. Millions died of callous and wilful neglect. The victims of Malthusian rulers. Over 6 million humans perished in just 1876 — when Madras was a hell. Many others had their lives shortened by ruthless exploitation and plunder.

Well before the Great Bengal Famine, the report of that province's Director for Health for 1927-28 made grisly reading. It noted that "the present peasantry of Bengal are in a very large proportion taking to a dietary on which even rats could not live for more than five weeks." By 1931, life expectancy in India was sharply down. It was now 23.2 and 22.8 years for men and women. Less than half that of those living in England and Wales. (Palme-Dutt.)

Mike Davis' stunning book, Late Victorian Holocausts, also ought to be required reading in every school. Davis gives us a scathing account, for instance, of the Viceroy Lord Lytton. Lytton was Queen Victoria's favourite poet. He "vehemently opposed efforts ... to stockpile grain or otherwise interfere. . . All through the autumn of 1876, while the kharif crop was withering in the fields of southern India, Lytton had been absorbed in organising the immense Imperial Assemblage in Delhi to proclaim Victoria Empress of India." The weeklong feast for 68,000 guests, points out Davis, was an orgy of excess. It proved to be "the most colossal and expensive meal in world history." Through the same week as this spectacular durbar, "100,000 of the Queen Empress' subjects starved to death in Madras and Mysore" alone.

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I dont want to waste my time responding to evrything that has been said here but a misconception that most seem to have here needs to be rectified.

The Hindu-Muslim riots after the partition of India was a direct result of The Two Nation and the Divide and Rule Theory being practiced by the British. Morever if you partition a country into three halves <on religious lines> what else can you expect??? Its quite ludicrous for you to blame the riots on the "barbaric nature" of people of the sub-continent.


Nobody Dies a Virgin, Life screws Everyone

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What's your point?

Get over it! It happened before you were born even so move on!

For goodness sake - you'll give yourself a tumor!

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The thing about the British, is that in dealing with Empire, they managed to convince themselves that God was an Englishman.

Of course this did not stop them from being equally to terrible to their own citizens. Throughout most of the 1840's and 1850's there were several famines in Ireland while at the same time food was being exported because it was more profitable than feeding those dying from hunger. At the same time, there were the "Clearances" in Scotland where small tenant farmers were driven off land that they had farmed for generations. If they could treat their own people this way, what hope was there for such an "inferior" as the Indian Natives

The idea that the Empire was somehow beneficent is almost laughable. A more accurate portrayal is that the British had a history of going into other people's countries, stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, and then quitting when there was little else left.

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Ditto, well said!

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Getting back to the original topic of this thread, this is one of my all time favorite movies. And personally, I liked Cary Grant's performance; I thought it was funny, and fit the spirit of the movie.

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I NEVER grow tired of watching this film. As for the political correctness police, they are free to apply their lips to my rectum. The scene where Sam Jaffe climbs to the top of the temple and sounds "Call to Arms", in the nick of time, always sends a shiver up my spine. This is a good story, told well and THAT is what makes for good movies. Give Gunga Din over ANY politically correct movie any day. The clone to this one, Sergeants Three, with Sammy Davis Jr as the Gunga Din character and Frank Sinatra and the other Rat Pack players hasn't been around for a long time and I have wanted to watch it again, just to see if it is what I remember it being. Maybe one day.

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Indeed a classic! Just saw it and thought it was immensely enjoyable.

Let's see if you bastards can do 90.

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Racist movie.

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