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Leonard Maltin's write up on Beginner's Luck

posted 13 years ago by freebergjason
18 replies | jump to latest

I'm glad my posts brought some folks out to post as it was very quiet here for too long.

OK Now for my next pet peeve,This is regarding Leonard Maltin's book on the life and times of the our gang comidies.In the book Maltin and Bann talk of the early days and howthe Our Gang series came into being and then about certain kids who played parts as part of the gang and they do a write up on each short the gang did.Generally I really like the job they did on it.When they came to do the one for Beginner's Luck I think they missed the boat.First they say the body on the prop is that of a strange looking oestrich.I think most people identify this as a large dog until they are corrected by people in the know who say it's a Lion or a lioness.Second they go into the grandmother character and say she is playful and only trying to expose Spanky's mother to the audience and winds up accidently ripping off her dress in the process.I see the grandmother smiling widely as she can clearly see the curtain going up with Spanky mother's dress attached.The last point on this subject they speak of how clear the differences are between Spanky's mother and Daisey's mother.They say Daisey's mom is not pushing her daughter to act on stage,they say Daisey's mother is more planly dressed than Spanky's.I say what does that matter at all.They say when Spanky's mother gets her comeuppeance that everyone is extremely overjoyed that She has been made a total laughing stock of and been made a spectacle of on the stage.I say well what about Spanky he certainly wasn't happy that this happened to his mom at all.To show you the real Daisey's mother slo-mo BL from the point Spanky's mother says "They're laughing at him" and watch the facial experssions of Daisey's mom.They have all allied themseleves as Spanky has offered the prize money to Daisey after he wins it,so they should all be on the same side.As the film advances Daisey's mom can be seen giving Spanky's mother dirty looks and sneering at her as she pleads for Spanky to be taken off.When the MC says Spanky is the hit of the Show a huge smile goes on Daiseys mom's face.She shows no mercy at all for Spanky's mother and poor Spanky out on stage been howled at.When granny hoists the curtain Daisey can be seen clearly smiling looking out at a dressless Spanky's mother and Daisey's mom looks away as if she couldn't care less as her ally has just been humiliated.

[–] doug78595 13 years ago

Yeah I've always had problems with there BL write-up as it's my favorite of the Our Gang series and they do such a great job on so many of the other shorts.He says BL is a hilarious triumph over stuffed shirts in general and stage mothers in particular.Then says this short is meant as a dig at the many stage mothers that the Our Gang people must of had to deal with over the yrs.I spoke to people who've read this and said sure thats exactly what Spanky's mother is an extreme Stuffed shirt and an extreme stage mother.The vast majority say she certainly isn't a stuffed shirt at all ,some say she is s type of stage mother but it varies all over the place on that one.Most people say she is somewhat misguided thinging Spanky has any acting talent at all.
As far as the stage prop goes they clearly blew it .
Regarding Daisey's mom yeah I've seen that and been toldd that by people before that she seems to only care for herself and her daughter as the mother nad son who were really stand up guys and went to bat for them wind up humiliated and she doesn't care as along as her daughter gets her dress.
Regarding the grandma, it may sould strange but I've been told by many women that women in a close mother-daughter relationship may have incidents like this one.As if that's not the most strange they're relationship would probably be just fine in a few days.The granny clearly saw the daughter was hooked and couldn't wait to hike that curtain and make a fool out of her.

The last point I have Maltin does say everyone loves the fact that Spanky's mother is made a spectacle of on the stage as Jeffery Alan Triggs in his article Roughing it: The role of the farce in the little rascals commidies states that Spanky is very happy that his mother has recieved a comeuppance and rushes the stage prop to further humiliate his own mother.I believe both articles are wrong as when Spanky frees his visor he is shown looking over at the back curtain and to his shock his mother is trying to keep her dress from rising on the curtain.Spanky rushes the prop into place to save her from the audience view.Triggs also states that Spanky's mother is humiliatingly undressed before a extremely tough audince and she learns her lesson from this completely innocent childlike mischief caooming from the gang. I s this guy nuts or what ????

[–] onestooges 13 years ago

I can't believe Doug brought up the Triggs article Roughing it -The use of the farce in the LR comidies.

I think I better tell people about the article - a sure must read for any BL fan.It was on the internet some yrs back but seems to have disappeared in the last 5 yrs or so.If you can get it it's a great read.It's a bit long at 9 pages 8 1/2 by 11 inches.

The basic jest is the comical farce used in BL is humiliation and how it works and how the viewer loves to see it happen.As Spanky's mother enters the theater she has everything going her way -she is on top of the world.As Spanky is just about to step off and start the show basicly everthing is in place for the humiliation of Spanky and the pure degragation of his mother but they don't know it yet.When Spanky's mom hears "Spanky Jr. The noblest roman of them all" she must be about to bust a gut with pride where only seconds later he falls down on stage.As he gets up the gang goes to work and she quickly knows to start to wave him off.As the act has turned into a pure comedic flop Spanky's mother is like a trapped rat looking for some way to get out of this.All doors are closed to her and she must try and do her best to get him off and stop the audience laffing at him.Her last resort is now used and she almost has him when granny springs her trap and Spanky's mother is now the object of the cruel audience's howling laughter.Triggs stats that the viewer loves to see Spanky's mother getting humiliated herself as she stated she won't have her son laffed at.Triggs says Spanky's mother experiance is loved by the viewer as it is basic human enjoyment watching someone suffer and be humiliated.He also says the the gang are to ones who are responsiible for Spanky's mother fate and he says what they do to her is nothing more the pure innocent childlike mischief.This final line has had many a person talking as it seems crazy.

[–] bigboy171975 13 years ago

I think the Triggs article had some valid points and some that souned crazy.I wish i had a copy to look at now but i'm going to have to go on pure memory.The farce element in "Beginner's luck" is the low comedy act of humiliation.They say the gang are the ones who are responsible for Spanky's mother's fate.What adds so much to her humiliation is she is an adult and as well a mother character and nornally should be shown some degree of respect.When she gives Spanky's message one kid says " Pay no attention to what his Ma says" and really shows her no respect at all. Triggs says that sometime after her dress has been torn off her and she sits frozen on stage and some time after the prop goes into place Spanky's mother has learned her lesson.Triggs says Spanky is glad that his mother was given this comeuppance by the gang.The one I had was 8 1/2 by 11 but it was 23 pages long? the part that everyone flips out over is all this is nothing but innocent fun played by the gang on Spanky and his mother (mostly his mother ).

[–] onestooges 13 years ago

I know one of us will finally get this correct,it has been a while since i've seen it to.Triggs says that it's wonderful that the gang were able to put Spanky's mother in her place and that it's great that she recieves a severe humiliation.Triggs doesn't seem to agknowledge that the MC and Grandma had anything to do with it.He seems to say that Spanky's mother will step off the stage and thank the gang for teaching her such a lesson and that Spanky would be jumping for joy that his mother has been stripped and humiliated in such a fashion.

[–] onestooges 13 years ago

I forgot one important aspect--- Triggs states that the gang manipulate Spanky's mother exactly as they want just like a trapped rat and move her from place to place and finally give her the piece of chese (letting her kneel behind the back curtain)and just as Spanky's act has really panned out it's time to get Momma into the act and bring the audience laughter up and let her be taught her important lesson.

[–] doug78595 13 years ago

Well what I tried to do was to get someone who has a copy so we can give highlites.I found out the article is 8 1/2 by 11 and is 23 pages long.I was able to get alot from my friend who took notes yrs ago and still has them.

Triggs goes into things that no one else does-he mentions the basic two plots of "beginner's Luck" an adult one and a children's one.Triggs sees the part where Spanky starts to get into it with Alphafa and his mother steps in to cool it down but Triggs points out that Alphafa and his brother Harold have the last laff as they can be seen in the stage wing as Spanky's mother's dress has been ripped off and they are shown laffing their heads off.Triggs sees nothing wrong with the mother putting Spanky on the stage to recite,he sees her trying to expand the horzions of her young son.He does bring up the gang comming and telling Spanky they will ruin his act after he tells them his mom is trying to make an actor out of him.Jerry Tucker seems to be the leader and tells him what they're going to do.The gang don't care what Spanky's mother want for her son at all.Triggs points out this is a form of rebellion against an authority figure.Triggs sees the part where the gang leave and the parrot tries to warn the mother of the secret plot,she says "Spanky ! Mother can't hear you" as Spanky is trying to shut up the parrot.The parrot saying"Momma Momma I know a secret" -Spanky delivers his line and Momma says "that's much better darling" with a silly smile on her face -Little does she know the plot is in place and the Parrot is now under a fishbowel chanting "MOMMA MOMMA".The idea that Spanky's mother wants him to win goes against the gang and she is either banished or made incidetal or the gang will take care of her later.

Spanky's mother is really "dissed " whe she comes to deliver the message as one kid says "Pay no attention to what his Mom says",the rebellion is growing,now Spanky's mother is shown no respect at all in her position as a mother and as an adult.In fact she has become a target.Triggs says the gang now have Spanky's mother like a trapped rat in a maze and they move her about as they please maneuvering her to fit their needs.She is buttered and highly seasoned and finally placed exactly where ther want her behind the back curtain on her knees.
Triggs says this is all part of the farce ,as it is about to go into place the children go against the conventional authority figure.

Triggs states the public interest is the same as is the public interest in a flogging,the farce appeals to the delibrite indulgence of the horrible derrisive joy in humiliating and suffering which is the beastliest element in human nature.The viewer laughs without sympathy for the victim being humiliated.he points out that a farce is intimately connected with the dark anarchic constituents of the human personality.Triggs says there are two different elements of the comical farce -the first is the humiliation farce and the second is the degragation farce and we have both in "Beginner's Luck".

Triggs says Spanky's young,atractive and blonde mother is about to be served up to the cruel audience.Initially it is Spanky who gets humiliated but as she tries to spare him it's time to spring the trap and let her have it.The audience really lets her have it as her dress is caught and everyone laffs at her expense.After her dress is gone she has the misfortune of freezing on stage gawking up at her dress dangling from the top of the theater.Triggs says Spanky plays a great sight gag at his mother's expense with the stage prop as she now is totally degraded.Triggs goes ahead and says the gang has used completly innocent mischief against an adult (Spanky's Mother)resulting in her learing her lesson in a result of nothing but innocent fun.

[–] onestooges 13 years ago

I knew you'd come thru Doug -Really great job man!!! Wow 23 pages I'l have to try and track this thing down and find out what I missed.

[–] JAYWER430 13 years ago

If anyone finds it, can they post where to find it.
I would love to read it myself

[–] doug78595 13 years ago

Hi Jaywer 430

It's Roughing It: The role of the farce on the little rascals comedies
by Jaffery Alan Triggs

We have alot of people looking to see if they still have a hard copy of this.If one can be found we will announce it hear and post it to the BL yahoo group.There seem to be two different versions a 9 page and a 23 page.They discuss only 6 LR comedies A lad an' a lamp,Beginner's Luck,Bubbling troubles ,Forgotten babies,Railroadin' and the Big premiere.
this was in a local or regional magazine in the late 1980's.As you may have read It is very very interesting and I think he hits the nail on the head amny times with things but he misses the boat too.Most people I knew who read it had difficulty as they said it was a tough read with alot of 50 cent words and he went of into tangents a few times.
If someone can find it great if they can't my buddies will help me can it as best as possible.

[–] JAYWER430 13 years ago

Thks Doug
This is really a great thread..Glad the board is active again
We need the newcomers with fresh insights and not the same old same old

[–] doug78595 13 years ago

Other points that Triggs brings up as the curtain is rising Jerry Tucker can be clearly seen beaming from ear to ear with joy watching Spanky's mother.

The way the general audience treats Daisey Dimple is shown only to show the viewer what will happen to Spanky's mother once she reaches her unfortunate demise.

One of the strange things about this article is Triggs opens by saying Spank's mother is a strong stage mother type but later on says she is certainly not a stage mother at all.

From what I or stooges or bigboy have written i'd like to hear from some people with thier opinions of Triggs in general and his opinions in certain aspects of Beginner's Luck.

[–] steveb789 13 years ago

Hi Doug

As Jaywer said this is a great thread-one of the most interesting things i've ever read here.I don't know if I know enough to say anything.From what i've read he seems to hit the nail on the head with a lot of it and other things he seems off base.To say that the gang was responsible for Spanky mother's fate ,well I just don't but it.To say what happened to Spank and his mother is nothing more that a childish prank resulting in innocent fun is nuts.The Spanky Alfalfa run in is something I never thought of before at all.The idea that the gang is in a rebellion against an authority figure sounds dead on.I really want to learn more about this article.

[–] freebergjason 13 years ago

Hi Doug
Lets see if I can give the bascis of Triggs-Bascilly the viewer loves to see people suffer and be humiliated -ie the example of the flogging and people wanting to see it.As he says we can sit back and laugh our heads off with no sympathy for the victim.
The viewer is in on the inside as the gang comes up with the sabotage plan going against the plan of an adult.The viewer sees the humor in the family pet nearly tipping off the mother and her having no idea what has transpired and telling her son how much better he is practicing.
Triggs sees the humor in the near altercation btween Spanky and Alfalfa as the Arizona nitingales can laugh at what happens to Spank's mother later.\
Triggs sees a genaration gap where the youngsters have no use for the adults and if they get in their way of accomplishing their goals they will take care of them.
He says the gang manipulates Spanky's mother throughout the short like a trapped rat in a maze.

[–] doug78595 13 years ago

Really nice answers guys still I want to hear from a lot of the other guys on their opinions.

I'm going to talk more of Triggs -one aspect he brings up is the lines and how really funny there are to someone who has seen it.He does say how ironic they are like when she speaks to the gang or the one when Spank asks can he do anything with the prize money the mother responds "Why certainly Spanky ,I only want you to be a big hit." The spanky gives the famous dress in the bag quote.He of course is the big hit but not like she imagined.

No one mentioned if they thought the gang was soley responsible or had the mother trapped like a rat and no one said anything that what happens is just childish mischief resulting in nothing more than innocent fun teaching her a lesson?

[–] richardschwerner 13 years ago

It believe I read this maybe 20 yrs ago in a magazine that a friend brought to my company.I was told to read it and pass it on as so many people wanted to see it.It was a difficult read and I had to read it and reread it maybe 7 or 8 times.When I passed it on I wanted it back as I remembered I could have made copies but it never returned.

I remember so things he used the term "her goose was cooked " or "they cooked her goose" and it was the first time i've heard that used for this short.I always thought it was the perfect line.

I think he said Spanky's mother is caught like a small fly in a spider's web and the viewer can't wait till she is gobbled up.

Yes,he did say this was just innocent fun and it seemed he was saying Spanky's mother would go out of her way the next day and make them milk and cookies.He spoke of the age gap between the kids and the adults and the children's act of rebellion against the adults and Spanky's mother in particular.

He mentioned the viewer looking on at this short with a basic human need to see someone totally humiliated.

He did speak of Spanky putting to stage prop in front of his mom the humiliate her even more.

[–] markgreenburg135 13 years ago

While some of what i've read just doesn't seem correct overall Triggs seems to have to bascis why it's so well liked.Make the mother character suffer laugh at her without any sympathy,the more she is humiliated the better we like it.

I say I have to hear much more about Triggs and I can hardly wait was it expalins a lot.

[–] jt74455 13 years ago

Hey Doug If you brought up the Triggs atricle can the Dr.Charles White study be far behind?

[–] freebergjason 13 years ago

Doug I just saw the post by JT and I'd really like to hear about DR.Charles White and his study.When you have the time.