Are you a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCSUKIhjevo
This video is cheesy but it sums it up pretty well.
Yes it sums up everything that is seriously wrong with Christian Fundamentalism in just five minutes.
Care to elaborate?
shareLaying on the guilt by the truck load. You are a bad person and it's all your fault. Human nature is bad.
This is a classic misdirection technique used by the elite to bamboozle the peasants. The peasants become consumed by looking inwards at their own "terrible failings" and endlessly trying to correct themselves and become perfect which of course is impossible and so it never ends. Meanwhile the elites can continue to exploit them and live the high life while ignoring all of the "rules" they have imposed on the peasants. And the peasants blame themselves for their predicament. Machiavelli would be so proud.
Not to mention the threat of eternal hellfire for people who refuse to do as they are told.
Despicable really.
Sinners are supposed to feel guilt. Without guilt, they wouldn´t feel like they are doing anything wrong. If they don´t feel like they are doing wrong, they will never repent. Not sure where you are getting this peasant v elites idea from. This is directed at sinners, rich and poor.
shareAnd then there is the pie in the sky promise of eternal bliss in heaven. Such a childish fantasy and yet some people are still buying it.
"fantasy" is a relative term. The idea of nothing creating everything sounds just as fantastic.
shareIf God created everything then who or what created God ?
God is eternal obv.
shareWell if God can be eternal as in having no beginning and therefore no creation then why can't the universe be eternal and have had no beginning and therefore no creation ?
Just because he is eternal doesn´t mean the universe or any of his creations can´t be finite.
shareYou have dodged the question again. But for the sake of continuing anyway...
Yes I see. And even if scientists discover that the universe has always existed that doesn't mean that God didn't make it to look that way in the first place !
I see what you mean. I am not dodging anything I just misunderstood you. Evolutionists say the Universe can´t be eternal, so I´m using Evolutionist rules.
shareI don't think "the Evolutionists" say any such thing. They say they have no idea what happened before the Big Bang.
If you believe in a Big Bang, you believe in the event of a singularity. There is no current feasible mainstream theory that supports a pre-singularity universe.
shareThere is no current feasible mainstream theory that supports a pre-singularity universe.
Yes that's what I said. They have no idea what happened before the Big Bang. But your grandiose way of putting it overlooks the theory of a multiverse doesn't it.
So what do you believe? Eternal universe, multiverses or a non pre-singularity BBT?
shareimponderable - difficult or impossible to estimate or assess
@Quasi. What I find funny is that you call creationism a cop out by bringing up God of the gaps while you refuse to pick a theory on the origin of the universe because it can´t be easily defended. That is the ultimate cop out my friend. At least I can pick a side without worrying about how many internet brownie points I will lose.
shareWhat I find revealing is that you overlook the obvious, namely that I don't "pick" a theory because how the hell would I know and you might as well ask the cat, and construe that as a "cop-out".
The most honest answer is that a smart person doesn't know. If the answer is unknown then all you have left is a choice of what to believe in where deep down you know you aren't certain that what you believe is correct. If God pops up and talks to me I'll believe in God, assuming I've sure I wasn't drugged or dreaming... but until that happens why would I choose to believe in God? What is the benefit to me for believing? Remember, one of the most universal beliefs in a religion is that if you don't believe in their religion your doom to some version of Hell or sent back to earth as a lower life form... So A better question as you seem to be a believer in God is which religion do you follow, and now the big question is how do you know you're following the right one? Remember not even all Christian faiths believe that every Christian is going to Heaven pick the wrong one and you're just as doomed as you would be if you were a muslim. So please, explain how you picked your belief and how are you so sure that you aren't following the wrong one and headed to hell.
shareIt´s not about "picking a religion" insomuch as it is about having a relationship with Christ and believing the word of God as written in the Bible. You don´t even need to belong to a particular denomination as long as you seek the word of God in the Bible and put your trust in Jesus and repent of your sins. The reason why there is a lot of dispute amongst "Christian faiths" is due to the interference of men in the word of God.
Catholicism is heavily criticized and rightly so because they believe in many things that are not biblical that were ideas introduced by men. Baptism of infants giving the Holy Spirit. The veneration of Mary etc. Purgatory. That´s not to say that there aren´t some Catholics out there who believe Jesus is their Lord and Saviour and may have the Holy Spirit and are saved but I think its probably very rare.
Jehovah´s witnesses reject the trinity and the sovereignty of God and have their Bible dictated by the Watchtower. They also believe that Jesus is the spirit of Michael the archangel. This is tantamount to heresy. Mormans believe Jesus Christ is the spirit brother of Lucifer and believe in works-based salvation. More heresy. Indeed there are even Christian churches that are teaching doctrine that is not biblically sound, accepting homosexuality, preaching a prosperity gospel etc, so any church and denomination can be corrupt and this is alluded to in scripture.
So to answer your question. I did not "pick a religion". I began to read the Bible for myself, felt convicted of my sins, began to worry about my salvation and eventually prayed, accepted Jesus as my Saviour and repented. The next day I found peace in my heart and realised I had received the Holy Spirit overnight.
The reason I know I am not headed to hell is because of Romans 8:15 "The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.”
The fatal flaw in your logic is that while you chastise some religions because you believe men corrupted them, but fail to seem to understand that the Bible is not the word of God but rather a collection of writings that some MEN decided to put together for a purpose that only they understood. Were they guided by some divine hand? Hardly, they were using the collection of writings to control the masses. Why else would the writings of other disciples be left out like the Book of Thomas and other Gnostic texts on Jesus? Most likely with Thomas it was because he clearly stated that God could be found everywhere and that you didn't need to go to a church to find God... With the Gospel of Mary it was because it was a woman and women were treated more like cattle than as human at that time... There are sorts of little bits about Jesus that got left out of your Bible and could be even more than anyone will ever know of because when the men created their Bible they would have put anyone with the other writing to death as a heretic.
So how exactly do you know that what your reading and believing are the final word on God? You don't. It is just a belief and you still never explain how you know your right... maybe the Jehovahs are right and you're dooming yourself to hell... Or here is interesting question to ponder, Christians going by the Bible would believe Jews cannot go to heaven... So what happened to Mary? What about Joseph? What about Moses and every other Jew that never was baptized. You can't very well believe the Bible is wrong, because if you do then it calls into question everything in it. Yet the Bible is filled with inconsistencies... so how can that be?
1. I am not "chastizing" other religions, I am merely critiquing why they are not biblically sound since the alterations are made up to 2000 years later and contradict scripture which is considered the divinely inspired word of God.
2. Gnostic texts are apocrypha.
3. If you don´t believe the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God, that is your opinion. My opinion is that God inspired and commanded men to write down his word, up to 1900 years ago.
4. John 16:13. Its more than just a belief. The Holy Spirit entering a believer at conversion is a supernatural event.
5. Baptism is not why or how a person is saved.
6. Jews can go to heaven, if they believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and Saviour. Jesus was a jew and went to heaven. I´m assuming Mary believed her son that was resurrected was her Lord and Saviour and was therefore saved. Moses and everyone pre Jesus Christ will be judged based on their own righteousness.
You completely avoided my point the Ghostic texts, of course they are apocrypha, that just means biblical texts that were left out of the Bible. My point is that they were left out because they were not supporting the agenda that the people creating the Bible wanted to push, it had nothing to do with what was written in them. If you truly believe in Jesus wouldn't you want the Bible to include everything about him and what he taught his disciples?
shareApocrypha are works of unknown authorship or doubtful origin. I believe the sovereignty of God allowed the Bible to remain as it was intended to be read. 2ndly, Gnostic texts can´t be inspired by God if they contradict his word.
shareYou are simply talking around the question. Sure they were left out because the MEN that created the Bible didn't want anything that would lessen the control they were trying to gain over people with the Bible. Nothing in the Gnostic texts contradicts God's word, the simple fact is very few things in the Bible are even attributed to God. It is easy to just claim the Bible is the one and only word of God, but the truth is it is just a collection of writings that were not gather by some higher being it was a collection of writings gathered by men, and according the Bible man is not perfect so there is no guarantee the collection of writing picked for the Bible is the right collection. For all you know the Gnostic texts are a more accurate account. If you never read them you'll never know.
shareNothing in the Gnostic texts contradicts God's word, the simple fact is very few things in the Bible are even attributed to God.
https://newrepublic.com/article/107506/top-three-heresies-gnostic-gospels
Try again.
share
What is your point? Are there any parts of the Bible that describe what Jesus was like as a kid? No, well then maybe he was a little monster to start with... You're simply assuming that because you don't want to believe it that it must not be true. It may be true it doesn't change anything with how he died does it?
As for Judas, think about it logically it makes more sense that he was in on the deal with Jesus than just doing it on his own....
And sorry but the virgin birth is the biggest load of shit of all. You can't possible buy into that crap.. I'm sure there have been countless women throughout the ages that claimed they never fooled around to their parents even after they squirted out a little rug rat, do you think they were all giving birth to little messiahs?
My point is that gnostic gospels are a contradiction of the Bible and those are only three examples. There are more examples. Gnosticism says creation is evil. Because of this belief they believe in dualism. Gnosticism also claims that salvation is only for those who have secret, esoteric knowledge. The Bible says salvation is freely available to anyone who puts their faith in Jesus as their saviour. They also deny that Jesus was God incarnate since matter including our bodies are evil.
shareNow you're mixing up specific sects of Gnostics with Gnostic texts, the two are not the same. Gnostics do not accept all the Gnostic texts as a part of their religion, Gnostic texts simply refers to ANY writing on that deal with Jesus which were not included in the Bible. Not the same thing at all. Many of the Gnostic texts were not even know to the followers of Gnosticism because those texts were buried and only uncovered hundreds of years after Gnosticism came to be.
shareThe prime authority in Gnosticism is personal religious experience. So one Gnostic can have a different belief to another Gnostic. No one is disputing that. That doesn´t mean they cant share mainstream Gnostic beliefs that are derived from the Nag Hammadi library. I don´t particularly care that much about Gnosticism because I already know that its heretical. I just wanted to unequivocally debunk your false idea that Gnostic gospels don´t contradict the Bible.
shareAgain you're mixing words and meaning up. I referred to Gnostic texts which is not the same as the Gnostic Gospel. The Gnostic Gospel is a defined book followed by the Gnostics, but Gnostics text simply refers to all writings about Jesus that were not included in the Bible. You can find contradictions in the books of the Bible, do you think they Bible should be tossed out because of that?
shareI am not mixing up anything, you don´t know what you´re talking about. There is more than one "gnostic gospel". Gnostic beliefs are not uniform either so having one "defined book" followed by the "Gnostics" doesn´t make sense. For instance, there are Mystical Gnostics who only follow teachings about Mysticism but don´t regard themselves as mainstream Gnostics.
shareThere is no proof that the Big Bang happened. That is a theory just as there have been lots of theories throughout civilization that are sometimes taken as fact and then sometimes shown to be complete horseshit.
@ BillySlater (1653)
The idea of nothing creating everything sounds just as fantastic.
^^
This is either a complete lack of understanding of The Big Bang or probably more likely an intentionally Straw Man on your part...
this is certainly not what The Big Bang Theory is or what scientists believe
PS
I hate the Big Bang Theory....I desperately wish it wasnt true....I would much rather Believe in an Eternal God that had no beginning....Unfortunately even my greatest Wish cant over come my logic.
Obviously theres not enough evidence right now(and may never be) to even remotely speculate what caused the Big Bang or what came before it(in fact that may be nonsensical) ....You wrongly stating "Nothing" or others Proclaiming "God" caused the Big Bang is simply absurd and a complete and utter shot in the dark.
I personally think(not believe, theres no evidence to warrant belief) Theres probably a multi-verse and Universes and are constantly "Banging".....In that case there was never "Nothing"....and "Something Never came from nothing"...
again, though Just my personal opinion, I'm in no way claiming or stating it....and Opinion is even strong, because Its basically a guess, Theres no evidence to back it up...
PSS
If God created everything then who or what created God ?
God is eternal obv.
^^^
I must admit I almost decided not to reply once you answered with this response...
lol you answered a question with a non answer....You answered a mystery with a bigger mystery....
you stopped looking for answers...lol you gave up
also and while I know this message seems mean and rude....I'm not trying to be ...Theres no easy way to talk about stuff like this and this topic is so Personal to some....
so I apologize if it comes off Mean
"This is either a complete lack of understanding of The Big Bang or probably more likely an intentionally Straw Man on your part...
this is certainly not what The Big Bang Theory is or what scientists believe
"
A non pre universal BBT can´t offer an explanation for the origin of the point of singularity unless you believe in an eternal universe. Has nothing to do with a straw man. The "something" that created/caused the universe was either always there or it came from nothing.
"lol you answered a question with a non answer....You answered a mystery with a bigger mystery....
you stopped looking for answers...lol you gave up"
Its not about "looking for answers" after you become a believer. You look for answers when you don´t know what the truth is. And as far as giving up goes, there really is only so far you can look in your lifetime when it comes to scientific explanations. For years multiverses were not even being entertained/considered credible, so your faith comes down to whatever the latest Scientist´s trendy idea for the origin of the universe is. In 20 years, some Scientist might dismiss multiverses and come up with an even more interesting/credible theory. In 100 years, multiverses and the BBT might even be laughed at.
I stopped looking when I found the truth and accepted Jesus as my Saviour. When I converted, I received the Holy Spirit, also called the "Spirit of Truth" in the Bible and everything that I believed in the Bible was confirmed to me to be true.
You look for answers when you don´t know what the truth is.
I stopped looking when I found the truth and accepted Jesus
^
You claim to know the truth...but you cant demonstrate it or actually provide any measurable data that you have in fact found the truth, Your true is 100% based on faith and Faith isnt a way to determine what is true or not true.
And as far as giving up goes, there really is only so far you can look in your lifetime when it comes to scientific explanations. For years multiverses were not even being entertained/considered credible, so your faith comes down to whatever the latest Scientist´s trendy idea for the origin of the universe is. In 20 years.
^^
completely wrong...I dont even remotely rely on what scientists say about the the origin of the universe and thats because science is BLOCKED from investigating it....
that why I specifically noted my opinion on the multi-verse was basically a guess...I have no data or evidence to back it up...Science cant prove it and I would never try to claim I found "Truth"
Right now and Maybe forever, Science can not investigate The moment of the big bang or what could have possibly caused it...
I'm in no way relying on "trendy" Science, A "trendy" science that is incapable of giving any information about the cause of the Big Bang or the moments before the Big Bang, Science breaks down at the singularity
Also I Dont have "Faith" in anything...or at least I dont have the kinda of Faith you are inferring, which is Blind Faith or Faith in the absence of evidence...
I have confidence that is based on Evidence....
for example The classic "Gotcha" go to phrase by theists is....
Do you have a wife?
You answer yes...
We'll do you have Faith that your wife loves you?
lol they think you should say yes...
The correct answer is no, I do not have Blind Faith my wife loves, I do not have Faith absent evidence my wife loves me...
I have Evidence based confidence my wife loves based on her actions and experiences I've had with her....
PS I dont have a wife....just giving an example
But My opinion that Theres probably a Multi-verse(actually probably is the wrong word, theres no way to determine probability) Lets say, My Guess thats theres a multi-verse Is not based on Faith, confidence or Trendy Science....its not based on evidence like "does my wife love me"(In which I would have evidence based confidence)
Its just a guess.
I stopped looking when I found the truth and accepted Jesus as my Saviour.
^
You stopped looking for answer when you CLAIM to have found the truth, yet that Truth that you CLAIM to have found can not demonstrated by you or any other Religious person in the History of Mankind
Please confirm with Evidence that Christianity is true and Islam is not?
Please confirm with demonstrable evidence that Jesus
A. 100% even existed
B. that the Claims and stories about him in The bible are 100% word for word accurate and actually happened, Please confirm that Translations of copies of copies of copies where there are no originals are in fact the divined Word of god.
C. please confirm that even if you were somehow to proof that The Bible is actual accurate and somehow Impossibly was Word for Word 100% past down correctly for 1,950 Years, Please confirm With evidence that These event actually happened and weren't stories, Lies or Honest Mistakes.
and Finally D
Please confirm that Jesus was Divined with Evidence strong enough to warrent belief?
and what I mean is.
If Even I accept the Bible was accurately transcribed, All the Claims Of Jesus's divinity were honest and what people truly believed
All that gets you is THAT IS WHAT THEY TRULY BELIEVED....It is not evidence that Jesus was actually the son of god and actually did those miracles and died for our sins
I perfectly willing to accept, That Most of the stories in the bible are not lies or just made up stories...I think its much more probable that the claims of The Apostle's were what they Truly BELIEVED....
but that is Not Evidence, its Claims of divinity.... with no corroborating evidence.
You have to take it on FAITH, that Jesus even existed, was Divine, Died, Was resurrected and Is the savior.
I get that for you, This Is TRUTH...that you believe this with All your being
But you cant actually prove anything you believe in....you can demonstrate that The TRUTH you found is actually TRUE.....You have to take it on FAITH, Blind FAITH....The same evidence you are using to BELIEVE Jesus is the savior and was divined is the same as people who claim to be Abducted by UFO's ....
I received the Holy Spirit, also called the "Spirit of Truth" in the Bible and everything that I believed in the Bible was confirmed to me to be true.
^^^
again you felt something you BELIEVE is the holy Spirit , something that You were Biased toward going in, again Please demonstrate with Evidence There actually is a Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit did in fact enter you and that this in fact Is A TRUTH and nothing more than what you genuinely BELIEVE
TRUTH is factual...Truth actually exists...
everyday we discover "Truths"....There is nothing else in life where you would say "Hey An invisible entity entered me, It felt good" therefor I am justified in declare IT IS TRUE, The Holy Spirit exists...
If someone came up to you tomorrow and said I saw the ghost of my grandmother last night, she entered my body, I felt her emotions, I know know she is at peace and moved on"
and well My grandmother always told me she would find a way to let me know she was ok after she died
would that be EVIDENCE enough to declare Its A FACT and TRUE that persons Grandmothers ghost did in fact enter his body since it lined up with what was expected and said?
lol The evidence you are using to claim your BELIEFS are true...is evidence you wouldnt use in any other measure of life.
You can not prove what you felt is the Holy Spirit....You can not claim Its TRUTH
You can claim you believe it....but If you try to claim Its Factual Truth, you cant do it without engaging in the fallacy of Special Pleading
In conclusion
again I get that you believe you have found truth...I get that my words to you are pointless, In fact you probably PITY me
But I didnt even remotely claim My Opinions were The TRUTH or factual...I didnt claim I had evidence to back up my opinion....
I'm not say I'm right and you are WRONG...
Yet you are....You are claiming you have The TRUTH with no abilty to demonstrate that TRUTH
I'd have no problem with anything you said in this post, if you just added 3 letters "IMO"...
It is Your Opinion you have found the Truth....You are entitled to believe that(I even envy you for it, I wish I was in your position)
But you can not factually state you have in fact found The TRUTH..You cant prove it.
You believe it on Blind Faith....
Faith Is NOT a Pathway to true...
The Moment you can demonstrate Christianity is TRUE, Jesus existed, was divined, Actually Died and was Resurrected, The Moment you have evidence that warrants Belief....that is the moment I'll believe and The Moment for you to Pronounce Its The TRUTH...
Until then...You BELIEVE ITS TRUE....and I dont BELIEVE YOU(I'm not saying you are 100%) I'm just saying FAITH is not a pathway to true, and FAITH is all you have, because you dont have evidence enough to warrant belief.
"again you felt something you BELIEVE is the holy Spirit , something that You were Biased toward going in, again Please demonstrate with Evidence There actually is a Holy Spirit, The Holy Spirit did in fact enter you and that this in fact Is A TRUTH and nothing more than what you genuinely BELIEVE"
I can only give my testimony as to why I believe the Holy Spirit entered me. Science can´t explain the spiritual realm so science will never be able to prove the truth. People who don´t believe will only find out the truth when they die. Believers already know what happens, sadly unbelievers are being deceived into whatever their current beliefs are.
In addition, its not my duty to prove anything to you. God already appeared to the world as Jesus 2000 years ago, and people didn´t believe he was God then, nor would they now.
Let him be.
The gospel is "despicable" to him.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing..."
Just ignore him and let him be, his heart is too hard. No message board post will affect anything.
You two are too far apart on this one, just ignore and move on.
I am stubborn.
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