MovieChat Forums > Joss Whedon Discussion > Were Gadot's comments supposed to be som...

Were Gadot's comments supposed to be some magic bullet?


Gal Gadot made some comments that hit the web yesterday. It was all over social media movie related sites:

"THR reports that “the biggest clash … came when Whedon pushed Gadot to record lines she didn’t like"

"Sources told the outlet that Gadot had “issues about her character being more aggressive than her character in Wonder Woman."

https://www.slashfilm.com/justice-league-clash-ray-fisher-gal-gadot-joss-whedon/?fbclid=IwAR0LI5xYe4rviZ3o1QbY6LikYPwtlQNk0r9Yhnq7tuomnTJ6oXNar6aL2BA

For starters, The Snyder Cut IS more violent and aggressive. Let's just get that out of the way.
Gadot has no legs to stand on based on that alone.

So her big beef with him is he - the DIRECTOR - dared to disagree with her on how to handle the character? It's a director's JOB to tell people on set what to do. He could be a huge asshole, I'm not really against the idea he's a prick, but THIS is what she and Fisher are complaining about? Makes them sound petty and difficult.

Also, let's be real, I don't think Gadot has ever read a comic. She thinks WW is this nice, sweet, matronly gal. Wonder Woman IS aggressive.

This whole thing has become nothing more than making Wheedon the fall guy for a bad movie. People are pretending The Snyder Cut is brilliant and they are just piling on and making excuses for why the movie bombed in the first place.

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So, I haven't been following it religiously, but the last comments I heard from Gadot were that she and Whedon got into some argument, she went to him with her complaints, they worked it out, and after that it was fine. That statement is in the link, about how she had issues but Warner Bros. handled it.

Actors and directors should, ideally, create characters together. That's a shared responsibility, and the clash between artists sometimes happens as a result. Sometimes they work it out, come up with something brilliant, sometimes they never see eye-to-eye and are forced to go with (usually) the director, who's final call it probably is. Sometimes that's good and sometimes not.

Who's to say what went down?

If that article is accurate, though, and Gadot was saying WW was too aggressive in Justice League, it also said that she was citing the character's progression from the WW movie to JL, so she might have a point.

From what I've read, it doesn't sound like she was being difficult at all. She had a problem, got mediation, and resolved it.

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The articles that came out yesterday said that he threatened to ruin her career. If true, it's not ok and would just be another thing added to the pile about why he's supposedly a dick, but the reason she went to him was because he wanted to make the character too aggressive for her tastes.

1. Tough titties. Writers and directors make those calls. Suggest all you want - you are certainly allowed - but they are under no obligation to implement your suggestions into the final cut. I've given feedback to plenty of employers over the years. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don't. This happens 1000s of times a day, if not millions, every single day.

2. Wonder Woman IS aggressive in both her comic origins AND The Snyder Cut is more violent. She HAS NO point. She's a very nice woman, but her portrayal of the character is really all wrong. It's forgiven because she's nice and puts a lot of heart into her performance, but she no understanding of WW.

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Yes, that would not be good. There seem to be enough stories of him being a jerk that I feel like there's probably at least a little fire to go with the smoke. I'm guessing he gets stressed out while working (perfectionism?) and has an inflated ego from decades of nerd worship and those two things combine to make him do nasty things.

1. Writers create the story, directors come up with a vision for it, and cast actors they think can fill those roles. Sometimes actors bring great things to parts, and they need to be allowed to develop within those frameworks. Filmmaking is building stories together and, ideally, all the artists are allowed to contribute to the art. Mostly, though, I think we're agreeing with each other. The final call would/should rest with the director, because that's the person who "coordinates" all of the elements. But I'm cautious to strip artists of their say because doing their job isn't exactly the same as just "implement what the boss wants" because their job is to create a character. They've been hired to be creative.

Things are compounded with complication when considering these new franchises where they plan them out over vast swathes of cinema and multiple directors are involved. If Joss Whedon doesn't like Gal Gadot, he doesn't have to hire her, but in this case, the studio hired her for multiple films and she already developed this character with two other directors, Zack Snyder and Patty Jenkins, not to mention the studio's development plans. So this might not apply to a traditional rubric of director-as-king.

Still: bottom line, director is god, although ideally is respecting his/her fellow artists and fostering creativity over dictatorships.

2. Yes, she is aggressive in comics, but somewhat dependant on writer - which is true of all heroes, of course; they vary wildly from comic to comic. Still, I know what you mean: the prevailing, most-often portrayed character of Wonder Woman has her as one of the angrier and more violent heroes of the DC pantheon.

I bow to your knowledge of the films, as I have not seen them. All I know is that she seems to feel that WW was less aggressive in the standalone film and that the acceleration into a much more violent version under Whedon's direction was distasteful to her. As to the Snyder cut, maybe she'd object to that, too, I haven't read if she likes it at all, or more or less than Whedon's. Snyder also might have been hampered depending on how much material was pre-shot. Did he do re-shoots? If he was stuck with the hours of footage Whedon shot, and if Whedon forced an angrier WW, Snyder might have had a choice between her aggression and leaving scenes he wanted on the floor.

Of course, that's all pure speculation since I haven't seen it, so again, I defer to you.

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The stuff about Fisher in that article is weird.

He complained about being too dark because the "mostly white" execs were concerned about presenting an "angry black man" at the centre of the film.

There's not a lot of detail there, but (again, assuming it's accurate and correct) I would guess that the executives' reason for hesitating on that is because (a) Marvel movies are fun and make billions of dollars, and (b) "angry black man" is a stereotype - a negative one - which receives a lot of bad press. If the opposite were true, if Cyborg was a light, fun character and the suits were trying to make him have a more sombre tone, what are the odds Fisher would be complaining about the "angry black man" stereotype? 10:1?

Then he's got a problem with "Booyah" as a catchphrase and says it's weird that the only black character gets a catchphrase. I didn't see the film. I don't know who wrote what lines (Whedon did re-writes), but I'm guessing that Whedon put in a bunch of his quips and things? I'm almost certain that Cyborg wasn't the only one with a line wryly or ironically poking at a pop culture anachronism like "Booyah". Help me out here.

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Agreed

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Well, The Snyder Cut is brilliant! Whedon is not just an asshole, his JL was shit and flopped. Why are people defending him?

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SnyderCut was trash and Whedon version was better

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Because some people give a shit about the truth and are sick of bullshit cancel culture.

Ray Fisher's "claims" have been vague and unproven. It very strongly looks like he was simply mad he got less screen time.

If he threatened Gadot's career, I wouldn't defend it. I can still say she and Fisher sound like they're complaining and still criticize Wheedon.

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Hear, hear. Truth, free expression and speech, standing against cancel culture - all of these are great values.

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Newsflash. If an actor refuses to take direction and wont do the lines then it could be harmful to their career. People are reluctant to hire actors if word gets around that they are uncooperative on set.

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Studios don't want to hire difficult actors and actresses? Who would have thought that?

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kuatorises answered this beautifully, but I'll add that Whedon has a lot of goodwill and cache with fans of his from Buffy, Angel, Firefly, the Avengers films, his comics, and so on, and so forth. He's given a lot of people a lot of joy and valued stories over the years, so they'll defend somebody who gave them that.

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You still think there's a lot of "goodwill" towards and around him? The guy was accused, that is all that matters in today's society. Most people eat that shit right up. Accused? You are GUILTY! Do you think most comments on these stories are in support of him? Because I do not.

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I think there are a lot of people who would happily go see more Joss Whedon movies and just don't want to argue, but I was more trying to say that Whedon has built up this goodwill stockpile which - while rapidly diminishing - is what makes people still defend him - to some extent; this was a response to Satan2016's question, "Why are people defending him?" and I think people who still really like his work are part of that.

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"I think there are a lot of people who would happily go see more Joss Whedon movies and just don't want to argue"

I'm not sure that's possible anymore. He was accused. That's all that matters in our idiotic society. His life must be ruined as a result of these accusations.

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With very loud people, yes, but I think a lot of people would just watch something he made.

Now, if what you mean is that it will be difficult for Whedon to get funding for projects or distribution, yes, I would agree with you; he is the subject of a witch hunt and will likely be hamstrung by this, perhaps permanently.

But, yes, I think there are people who would watch Whedon's stuff.

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"Well, The Snyder Cut is brilliant!"

Dude, you have terrible tastes.

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Well, the Snyder Cut is better than Whedon’s.

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