MovieChat Forums > Donald Trump Discussion > The most surprising proposal in history

The most surprising proposal in history


Not sure what his plans are, but if you take his words at face value Trump just moved way to the left of the leftmost politician there ever was in the western world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6uNuYjq8Nc

Not what hardcore right wingers think where the left would be when they bash Democrats who are right wing authoritarians as well and just falsely defined as left, but REALLY left, TRUE left, way left of Bernie Sanders or anyone else you could name.
No matter what else he's doing, this one alone puts Trump close to the leftmost border of the spectrum.
It's the polar opposite of what JD Vance demanded from Europe in his speech yesterday.

What comes out of it remains to be seen, but if he goes forward with this, I can see the stock market values of military suppliers collapse.

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I don't think you can take what Trump said at face value.

Remember he just unleashed Musk on department of defence.

Maximum pressure, I think that is he was aiming for, on DOD, to get some concessions from them, or get a cut of their deals, or both.

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I am aware, but the proposal alone means something to me.
I mean if a YT channel like Jimmy Dore gets all excited about Trumps plan that's something.
Jimmy Dore has always been way to the left of Democrats, he now sees Trump closer to his position as Democrats and as far as I can remember back Jimmy Dore has never been wrong in the overall picture.
Here's another posted just a few minutes ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7puashEbDsc

If true this would become a bumpy ride for the core Rebublicans and especially the religious ones.
Alone the irony is something, because this would mean that Trump would be further left with the Republicans than Bernie Sanders ever dreamt of getting with the Democrats.
Can't wait to see the reactions in corporate media.

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Yeah, that one I already knew and made comments about it: https://moviechat.org/nm0874339/Donald-Trump/67ae2f9bce430e3bae717bac/Trump-wants-to-gift-Ukraine-to-Russia?reply=67ae676bce430e3bae717dc9

Unless Ukraine is winning in battlefields, redrawing borders and Ukraine not joining NATO are basic realities.

The real point of negotiation would be whether Ukraine would become a permanent neutral country without military, that is the Russian demand.

But that is hard to swallow for American military industrial complex, most Ukraine military aid checks were sent directly to them.

And where majority of those money end up is a real mystery: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/feb/05/facebook-posts/zelenskyys-statement-about-ukraine-aid-didnt-revea/

That is one of ways to increase defence spending without increasing defence budget, Afghanistan was another, and Trump stopped both.

I think Trump unleashed DOGE on department of defence was a part of that negotiation.

Also US announced European military entering Ukraine won't trigger NATO article 5, I think hoping they will send their armed forces to put some pressure on Russia.

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Either way, I'd say let's wait and see, Trump supporters are always soooooooo convinced he'll do what he says and now that what he says would be a gigantic leap towards the left side of the spectrum, as first step I'm really curious what his right wing fans will say about that and 2nd I wanna see what he really does.

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Why is this a leap towards the left? Only delusional lefties think they can defeat Russia. As their predecessors - the Nazis - did...

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Jimmy Dore was once on TYT, isn’t that wild?

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Yes he was, but he left them when TYT sold out to some rich sponsor.
They've had quite a battle on YT with videos bashing each other, where Jimmy came out being right with everything he said.

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He seems to be trying to hobble the Military Industrial Complex, and while some will be stuck at the political framing this is the right move. Trump has the power, the respect and foreign policy to get it done most likely too.

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Yes he would have the option to do it, but then this would be a move so unbelievably far to the left that I'm having a hard time believing it before I see it happen.
I mean I've written at least a dozen times posts in this forum where I said in always different words that I find Republicans and Democrats both unelectable, because from where I'm standing they are both way too far to the right and this proposal if pulled through would make even people like me find Trump electable.
I can't even picture how the core Republicans will react to this, let alone corporate media.

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Actually the Overton window has been pushed to the left quite a bit, but political opinions will vary. Your thoughts IMO suggest that the classic view of right v left is insufficient to properly represent the positions of at least some individuals. I don't fit easily into any classification either, and see others that feel similarly.

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From my point of view that's because of false definitions.
Democrats have been defined as left, but are in fact right wing authoritarians.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2024

If you believe they would be anywhere near left, you easily get the impression that left and right are no longer valid definitions and you get to statements like your "I don't fit easily into any classification".
Furthermore many self nominated "analysts" force the two dimensions of the political spectrum into a single one, getting to the most absurd definitions, such as "far right" which in a 2 dimensional view isn't far right, but "far authoritarian".
Aside of such false definitions, it's really easy to locate yourself.
Take the above link, look at the graph split into 4 quadrants

1st dimension, horizontal left-right is exclusively economics, right is favoring of the rich, left is economically balanced policies.
2nd dimension, vertical liberal-authoritarian is exclusively social aspects, liberal freedom vs authoritarian patronizing.

Top-right is where most politics in the western world is located, enforcing the favoring of the rich by patronizing the population.

Bottom-right is where people like Musk are, the so called "Libertarians", knowing that money rules the world they want total freedom for the rich, as little government as possible, believing their money will keep the mass of the people under control. Doesn't work, never has, because liberal freedom allows the population to demonstrate in the streets. Macron tried in France a right-liberal approach when he first became president, got massive protests nationwide near instantly from the "yellow vests" and moved to the right-authoritarian quadrant within weeks. Or in short, Libertarians are in the liberal half of the spectrum only until they get to power. Other than that the bottom-right quadrant of the spectrum is empty worldwide.

Top-left is where you find communists and socialists, massive authoritarian patronizing while the political leaders fill their own pockets, but other than themselves they do not favor the rich, they simply take whatever they can get from everybody, a rather distorted idea of "balanced policies" that leaves most of the population in poverty.
Bottom-left is where you find 90+% of the worlds population, wanting economic policies that benefit the whole population, not just the richest 0.01% and don't want to get patronized by corrupt politics.

Once you get these definitions straight, you can easily locate entire countries in the spectrum.

China isn't socialistic, they aren't located on the top-left, they run top-right "state capitalism", where the government owns the majority of businesses, but still allows for private businesses (such as US corporations) to operate in the country, while the government runs the typical policies of favoring the rich by patronizing the population.

The so called "far right" isn't far right, as you can see for example in France, where LePen is located near the center in the horizontal dimension

https://www.politicalcompass.org/france2024

while Macron is the furthest to the right.
The so called "far right" is in fact "far authoritarian", which is what facism is all about and it currently gains popularity in the general population because the bottom-left quadrant of the spectrum is near empty in most countries (with the exception of France) of the western world, at best there are some badly organized miniature parties like the American Greens, and a population facing a choice in elections that offers only authoritarians will choose the ones that are at least economically not all that far to the right. Latest when you include the false definition of Democrats being on the left and the false impressions that gives to the low educated population, you get why the so called "far right" is on the rise in the western world.

Trumps proposal of cutting military spendings in half is a gigantic leap to the left, because it's an economic policy that cuts big time into the money the rich shareholders of the military-industrial complex are pocketing.
Whether he pulls it through and whether that results in top-left or bottom-left politics remains to be seen. Personally I'm afraid he'll move to the top-center, where the fascists are.

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Semantics will get you somewhere I guess. I looked at the link. The graph is four colors, I saw no information as to how they were plotted or what criteria was involved in their placement. Furthermore the 'information' has been provided by the site linked with no other credits given.

The Overton Window has indeed shifted and appears to be shifting again. In the end the Bard's words on names and their ultimate impact is applicable here, and the people have spoken. Are you attempting to sway my position on the terms used or something else?

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Not at all, I'm a liberal, I let you believe whatever you want to believe, I'm just explaining how I use the politicalcompass to maintain my opinion that left-right and liberal-authoritarian have always been and remain to be what they originally were, what has changed is only the media propaganda that has falsely defined several things to what they weren't before and from there has led many people to believe that the definitions of left and right shall have changed.
I for one do not ignore the facts of the original definitions, I rather ignore the media propaganda suggesting it shall have changed.

You have apparently not even looked at the graph for more than a second, or else you wouldn't have stated "no information as to how they were plotted or what criteria was involved" but would have noticed the bold black text on all 4 sides of the graph explaining in one simple word which side means what.
Also it seems you didn't read the text below the graph where it expains where they got their data from.
"We have analysed speeches, manifestos and, crucially, voting records in the compilation of this chart."
It's as easy as "a Democratic party that has voted in Congress and Senate alongside Republicans for an ever increasing military budget even beyond of what the military asked for, cannot be left-liberal".

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I never claimed you were anywhere on the political spectrum. You are welcome to call anything what you want, it changes nothing. English changed over so many years but you can dig up and learn Old English and use it in public insisting that it is the true iteration, or you could use the modern parlance- you have free agency here.

I said I looked at the graph and I did. I saw those words, but there are no real measurements are there? And the description they provide that you quote here: "We have analysed speeches, manifestos and, crucially, voting records in the compilation of this chart" tells me nothing about their methodology. Actual studies are transparent while this one just essentially tells us 'trust us dude'. The last quote you provide there is a statement that declares something is either one thing or the other with no room for a grey area, the exact opposite of the method the graph uses.

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"The last quote you provide there is a statement that declares something is either one thing or the other with no room for a grey area, the exact opposite of the method the graph uses."

You don't realize how absurd your argument is there?
The military budget is just one piece of the overall picture, if it were for this one alone Republicans and Democrats alike would be located in the top-right corner of the spectrum, so close to the border of the spectrum that the dots indicating their position would overlap the borderlines of the spectrum to the right and to the top.
Only in combination with other factors, such as giving tax breaks to the richest, cutting social programs, letting infrastructure crumble because theres no money left after cutting taxes on the rich, it gives the overall picture where Democrats are a bit less to the right and a bit less high up on the authoritarian scale and that's what you call the "grey area".

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"You don't realize how absurd your argument is there?"

I didn't provide an argument I made a statement of fact.

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In fact a false fact, but at least reason enough to add you to the other advice resistant fools on my ignore list.

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What I said is true about your statement. Whether the statement you made is true or false is not my responsibility. And advice? You gave none. But let's say you did- you block those that don't immediately heed your advice? No offense but you don't even understand the words being used here. If anyone needs advice it's you, and my advice to you is to shore up your educational fundamentals before you go attempting to preach to and change others. It's easy to perceive faults in others even when none are present, but most couldn't recognize their own faults if they were a growth on their face.

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Is this another market crash prediction. Good news, as many times this is predicted on here….u r bound to be right eventually. Stay the dream.

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A market crash is a given fact in capitalism, on average every 60-80 years, last one was in 1929, 2008 would have been the next, only that massive amounts of new national debt all across the world have managed to postpone the crash, where we do not know for how much longer exponentially increasing national debt throughout the world can delay the crash.

But that's a different topic and has nothing to do with this topic here, stock market value of military suppliers going down by maybe 30% or something doesn't cause a global crash of all economy.

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A market crash is a given fact in socialism ...

... national debt ... i.e. government debt?

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What planet do you live on?
Do you honestly believe the US was socialist in the 1920s when the "roaring 20s" led to the crash in 1929?
Do you honestly believe it was socialist politics when Republicans from 1929 to 1932 tried printing their way out of the depression, taking on unprecedented levels of new government debt with the result that the depression got worse and worse until Roosevelt has put the economy back on its feet in 1933 by taxing the rich?

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Cutting Military Budget IN HALF
as in
Paul promotes a noninterventionist foreign policy and an end to American imperialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#:~:text=Paul%20promotes%20a%20noninterventionist%20foreign%20policy%20and%20an%20end%20to%20American%20imperialism

... small government, decentralization etc? I.e. not to the left of Sanders etc.

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Less military doesn't neccessary mean smaller government, it could also mean the government could use the money they save on the military for social programs that benefit the people, such as ending homelessness.
What they do for example in Europe.
Saving on government spending just to lower taxes on the rich even further isn't left at all and whether Trump will give all the money saved from the military to Musk or give it to the people remains to be seen.

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"What they do for example in Europe."

Wrong! In Europe they take the money from the poor and give it to effin' Ukraine...

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"I can see the stock market values of military suppliers collapse."

.... and here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=307MyT5KPI4

Just a small step for now, looks like everybody is waiting to see whether or not Trump will really do it.

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