Thanks for doing the research for me :). Yeah, I'm lazy sometimes but damn, why teach there? It's like teaching your enemy how to build nukes or something.
I dunno, just trying to better their country seems counter-productive in the sense that when they revolt against the dictatorship regime, they'll understand why this godly figure is a no show nobody.
'Warmbier's father stated that his son, en route to Hong Kong to complete a study abroad program, was traveling in China at the end of 2015 when he saw a company offering trips to North Korea. He decided to go because he was adventurous, according to his father. The senior Warmbier said that the China-based tour operator, Young Pioneer Tours, appealed to young Westerners with slogans such as "This is the trip your parents don't want you to take!" and advertised the trip as safe for U.S. citizens.'
Yeah, fuck him. Adventurous... lol... probably safer to just skydive if you wanted to be adventurous or other places where your chance of death isn't quite high. That and he stole or took some DPRK slogan and got caught in the act. Sounded like some frat boy or guy wanting to be daring and exploratory to tell his friends back home they took some shit from some hell hole place for likes/views.
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eYeDEF (5050)
7 years ago
Dude this is a country where its people are seriously malnourished. The food supply goes first to feed the military, by the time it trickles down to the rest of the population there are serious shortages. North Korean civilians end up eating grass and trapping rats to eat in order to survive, foreigners are warned off from buying sausages in their markets because some are stuffed with rat meat. So I have a hard time criticizing anyone going there to teach their citizens better agricultural techniques to improve their ability to grow their own food like these three prisoners did. I don't get how you think that resembles 'teaching them to build nukes'.
I do get the frustration with Americans going there to evangelize Christianity and getting thrown in their hard labor camps, which has happened with regularity in the past. Having American hostages gives our adversaries geopolitical leverage and putting the US in that spot in order to proselytize Christianity is ridiculous in my opinion.
As for Warmbier, you weren't the slightest bit rebellious and ignorant when you were 22 (assuming you're older)? Because I sure as fuck was and might have naively gone on that travel tour if I were in his shoes. Actually, by the time I was 22 I had done quite a bit of traveling and probably knew better. But I can understand someone who was exploring the world for the first time not having a clue.
But there's good reason to doubt that he stole that poster since there was never a clear shot of his face in that video "evidence" they provided. WaPO interviewed the British roommate who was with him for practically the whole trip and he said he never saw anything that led him to believe he had ever committed the crime. He recounted that just as they were boarding the plane to leave NK secret police pulled him from their group and he never saw him again.
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dlancer (2036)
7 years ago
I haven't been to NK, but I've been to Iran, and they're supposedly very similar as far as the type of tours you can take. It's just not advised if they know you have a big bank account.
There's definitely something sketchy with the prisoners, and I'm sure it's all because of North Korea, but it's not like they were some random Americans visiting and NK said "hey look, Americans! Let's hold em hostage."
You know there's a bit more to it than we're privy to.
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eYeDEF (5050)
7 years ago
Cool! I'd always wanted to see what Tehran was like out of curiosity. Always thought it would have been great to visit prior to 1979 when it was still a secular country and Americans were treated well.
Sure it's always dangerous to advertise you're an American with a big bank account in many parts of the world. You don't need to go to Iran for that, you'd be painting a target on your back if you did that in Mexico and many parts of South America. Banditry or low level LE or corrupt officials trying to squeeze you for bribes is always a risk.
But Iran and NK are the only two countries where in the past Americans have been targeted under false pretenses by their central governments for use as political hostages against US interests. A hostile government with no history of targeting American visitors is Cuba. That place is sweet, I've been there and would go again. US dollars go a long way and their economy is far too dependent on US tourism to alienate by taking political prisoners. But the political situation for Iran and NK makes them all but inaccessible to most traveling on an American passport. I'm surprised you were willing to risk it unless you've got relatives there.
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Rorikon (18391)
7 years ago
You would think the whole population would revolt/riot from being on the starving end. I wonder how they're able to keep them in line and not so much like the situation in Venezuela.
As for being a bit rebellious and ignorant when I was 22, nope. I don't travel as much as maybe you do but I do like playing it safe to some extent. If I were the other, I'd probably show some sympathy for those types of folks but they do make great news when shit hits the fan. I don't mean to discourage people from going to hell holes but at least have some common sense when you go there to maybe not get killed in the process?
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eYeDEF (5050)
7 years ago
Orwellian tactics is how. NK is the most isolated country in the world and there's not even a close 2nd. Unlike Venezuela their citizens have no contact with the outside world so they'd have no concept or reference point to affect an overthrow of the government. The neo-confuscianist propaganda they're brainwashed to believe teaches them authority is to be obeyed and never questioned. That makes it a hard country to make any headway in as far as fomenting a revolution, and no doubt CIA provocateurs in the past have tried. Those that manage to escape are like cult victims that require deprogramming.
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