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[spoiler]#HateIsNotAPlatform[/spoiler]
Well done. It's funny how suddenly banging a pornstar became important because the last crusade againsy Trump turned up empty.
shareThese investigations are long ones and we are not privy to what evidence has been gathered thus far. Like you say they may have found nothing. Or Mueller could quietly and methodically be putting together a case. Time will tell but it's silly to be saying at this point nothing has been found because we simply don't know.
And banging the pornstar is irrelevant and not a crime. But the investigation may be whether or not any campaign laws were broken with the hush money that was paid.
So let me ask, when will you say it's been enough to conclude that the collusion issue was a witch hunt with no merit? It's been almost a year and a half,there must be a point when even the Trump haters have to call it over. The media is hardly covering that anymore,and have shifted their attention to a sex scandal. That does seem like it's relevant when you jump from accusation to accusation without any substance,hoping something sticks. Not to mention the clear attorney/client confidentiality breach. That should bother everyone regardless of party affiliation. The government shouldn't be above the law, even if they don't like the current administration. Snowden is a hero in my book, because he risked his freedom to show us how corrupt our government is. Unfortunately most people (both sides) are to sheeply to care, but they will once their personal rights are being violated.
sharePlease...
Hillary was investigated for 4 years over Benghazi, and she was Secretary of State - not a President.
She spent one day - 11 hours straight - being questioned by republicans for an explanation of events for - at that point - had been already investigated 13 times, and came up empty.
After 4 years, they came up with a private email server that they investigated up till election day, and came up empty with that.
They're ON RECORD saying that it was political, that they were doing it to muck her chances at running.
When it gets to that point with the President, then we can call it all off.
Yes because Americans died.
There was no Trump/Russia collusion so there’s jacksquat to investigate.
Witch hunt.
#HateIsNotAPlatform
That’s the thing; it’s not for me (or you) to say when it’s been enough to conclude the investigation. Unless I missed something this wasn’t a Donald Trump/collusion investigation, it was an investigation to get to the bottom of Russian meddling in U.S. elections. The investigation has resulted in indictments and guilty pleas (some close to Trump). He complains that this is a democratic witch hunt but Mueller is a Republican and a Vietnam war hero. I’ve seen zero evidence that Mueller has done anything unethical regarding this investigation other than the fact that it’s making Trump unhappy, so I think he deserves the room to continue.
The other thing about an investigation is that if other crimes outside the scope of the original are discovered, they need to be treated like crimes and prosecuted as well. If they were investigating someone for murder and while interviewing witnesses learned that the suspect couldn’t be the murderer because they were robbing a convenience store across town at the time, they wouldn’t ignore that crime just because he was innocent of the murder they had suspected him of.
And yes attorney/client privilege should be taken very seriously. But if the attorney is committing crimes on behalf of (or in cooperation with) their client, the privilege is basically void. There is also a crime-fraud exception to a/c privilege that states a client’s communication to his attorney isn’t privileged if he made it with the intention of committing or covering up a crime or fraud. There is a high bar set for something to fall under this provision which makes me think that whatever evidence they had in securing the search warrant on Cohen must’ve been compelling. Keep in mind the warrant was signed off on by Rod Rosenstein who is also is a Republican and was appointed by Trump.
I’m content to let the investigation play out regardless of where the evidence leads. What you really should ask yourself is; why isn’t Trump?
Not to mention the clear attorney/client confidentiality breach.
That is a cliff notes statement,not the legal wording,or even close to it. There are many intricacies,the biggest being "you must take the least obtrusive method of obtaining information", and seizures of anything you can get your hands the moment you want it doesn't comply with that. It's been well established that our government feels it's above the law ON ALL SIDES, and Americans on all sides should have a huge issue with that.
shareI thought special prosecutors were allowed to investigate crimes unrelated to the one they were originally looking into. Follow the evidence.
Oh wait. Conservatives believe they shouldn't have to follow the same rules as the rest of the people. I forgot.
Kind of like what I saw UltimateHippo had posted a few days ago -- These were in the same post, by the way.
First he bashes Hilary Clinton, as he loves to do, for standing by Bill Clinton faithfully.
Then, a paragraph later, he bashes anyone talking about Stormy Daniels because Donald & Melania's marriage is apparently their business and we shouldn't be talking about it.
Typical hypocrisy.
Monica Lewinsky was the result of a four year investigation into White Water. No relation between the two.
Hillary emails were the result of a four year investigation into Benghazeeeeey. Again no relation between the two.
There has never been a crime named. Even if Trump and Russia did collude, which they DID NOT, as the lack of evidence has proven. There IS NO FEDERAL LAW PROHIBITIING COLLUSION.
Translation: witch hunt.
#HateDoesNotCreate
So if Trump didn't commit a crime what are you so upset about. The investigation has produced indictments and guilty pleas so far. Again, this was an investigation into Russia meddling in our elections, not an investigation about nailing Trump for collusion. Aren't you glad that wrong doers are being brought to justice? Why don't you want this seen through to conclusion? I don't get why Trump (and you) are so bothered by this investigation.....unless of course he's hiding something. But what are the chances of that?!
shareThat's rediculous. The ends do not justify the means. There is a ton of evidence showing that there have been many improprieties in this investigation. No,I don't agree that you get to shake the tree and see what falls out, and if nothing does just say "if you didn't do anything wrong,it shouldn't bother you". Not one person would be ok if that type of situation found it's way into your personal home.
share"Not one person would be ok if that type of situation found it's way into your personal home."
They're not shaking the tree. They're following the trail of the Russia Meddling investigation. If that leads to Trump so be it. The FBI knows very well what an investigation entails. And fair point, an innocent person would not be okay with their home being searched. But Trump's own Republican appointee signed off on the search warrant for Cohen's place. They wouldn't have gotten authorization to execute that warrant unless they had something substantial. Like I said, we are not privy to what evidence they have collected so far so we can't make a sound judgment on improprieties.
There are some things that have been confirmed to be improprieties, particularly the dossier being used as a foundation for the investigation.
shareI also have to say Burk that you do seem to believe the ends justify the means when it comes to Trump. What I mean by that is that even if you won't admit it, I think in your heart of hearts you believe Trump did some stuff that wasn't on the level. But you're not concerned with that stuff because you like Trump's policies and you like his style. And I get that. We all have people we like and admire and we knowingly create blind spots for them.
For me I see a strong parallel to OJ Simpson. OJ Simpson was acquitted of a double murder that he was clearly guilty of and became the mid-90s poster child for racial inequality and police brutality. Of course this ignored the fact that his wealth and celebrity status helped him avoid legal trouble stemming from domestic abuse incidents prior to the murders. If there was anyone unworthy of the race card, it was OJ Simpson. The guy who gladly played golf at racist country clubs was the hero of the African American community and the guy who shits in a gold toilet and ripped them off with his phony university is somehow the hero of the working class.
Perhaps someday I will be proven wrong Burk. But I honestly believe that eventually you'll have to admit to yourself what deep down you already know. Trump isn't the guy you and so many others are trying to believe him to be.
I think it's very possible Trump has some skeletons in his closet. I've expressed my disdain for politicians in general,and assume to achieve the higher levels of office that they ALL have done some shady shit to get there. I don't approve of twisting the rules based on the individual. The old adage of police hasseling a kid dressed like a thug standing on a street corner in a high drug trafficking area is a good example. Yup, the kid is probably up to no good, but it's pure bullshit to harass him unless you have evidence he's done something wrong. The law and rules needs to apply to everyone the same, including the Feds. If Trump was savy enough to hide his activities in a way that couldn't come out in a legal way, then the process itself needs to change, not a particular investigation on a whim.
shareClearly Burk you and I disagree on whether this investigation is being handled fairly or not and you’ve the right to your opinion as do I so I won’t try to convince you otherwise.
But as a Trump supporter who has actually talked to me instead of down to me as some others here have, I’m hoping if you’ll indulge me a bit. I’m curious if there’s anything that could be uncovered that would make you change your opinion of Trump? Hypothetically, if everything in the dossier is true and they produced hard evidence that Trump was being blackmailed by the Russian government, would your opinion of him change? Keep in mind you could still feel the FBI needs to be overhauled, but is there anything that could shake your faith in Trump himself? For the record this isn’t trying to get you to concede anything and I’m just really trying to understand your point of view. As someone on the opposite side of the aisle feel free to present me with any hypotheticals.
Yes, if he has done something wrong he should be accountable,but there still needs to be fair due process REGARDLESS of his guilt or innocence. My whole problem with this circus has been the way that this seems motivated by personal reasons rather than legal concerns. If the dossier was completely true, it in itself still shouldn't have been the reason to move forward with the investigation. It was assembled by his political rival, how fair and unbiased does that really seem. Despite the fact that it isn't a legal bases to start an investigation. If Trump did something illegal,he should have to suffer the consequences,but ONLY if the road to that conviction was legal and just from the very beginning. Finding information out after shady practices and excusing illegal searches and ignoring due process isn't how our system is meant to be. We are presumed innocent until we are proven guilty, not the other way around.
shareNo I get your feeling on that and I agree. Where we disagree is on whether due process is being followed or not and I’m not trying to change your opinion. My question was asking if whether there is anything that can come out that will change your opinion of Trump as a person. If he was found to having been successfully blackmailed by the Russian government, regardless of how the info came to light, would you still be comfortable with him as president or would you want him to at least resign?
shareThat is the double edge sword you keep missing. If evidence is obtained in an improper way,it's very validity can be called in to question.
shareNot missing it, I get what you’re saying. I agree about due process but we disagree whether it’s being violated here or not. I was just asking if anything would change your opinion of Trump regardless of whether or not it was prosecuted.
shareBy any chance, did you vote for Hillary?
shareHaha what tipped you off? Yes I did.
shareIt is a fact that she received debate questions early,and didn't report them or the woman who "unknowingly" gave them to her until after it was found out. It is also a fact that she deleted subpoenaed emails she decided were "personal". There are MANY other dealings that the Clinton's have done that are very shady,but associations have got them off the hook.You still support her despite these facts. How can you fault the right for blindly supporting a candy,when the left does the same thing. I'm all for putting criminals in prison and being accountable for their actions,but not if the people doing it are criminals themselves.
shareHillary Clinton is certainly a flawed candidate but a lot of it comes down to either you trust our justice system or you don't. The whitewater investgation was led by a Republican and produced no charges. The Benghazi investigation was led by Republicans and produced no charges. The email investigation was led by Jim Comey who was a Republican until changing to Independent in 2016, and stated that while she was extremely careless there was no criminal intent on her part. Does any of that make me uneasy? Yes. But do I ultimately put my faith in the process? Also yes. Her getting access to likely debate questions is not admirable but also not criminal (and if you feel evidence must be obtained legally keep in mind this was made public due to a dnc email hack).
So there are things I see from Hillary I find troubling. But to me it pales in comparison to Donald Trump. He claims to be for the working man but Trump University ripped off people largely from the working class buying into his get rich quick scheme. He also gladly helped rip people off with his part in the ACN pyramid schem...er..multi level marketing opportunity scam. There's a mile long list of contractors who say they were left hanging for payment after services rendered. Not to mention how much tax payer money has been funneled to Trump businesses since the election (and during the campaign). Trump is not the face of the working man.
I wish Hillary was president but she's not, so I don't think people should need to defend her every time someone points out one of President Trump's wrongdoings. He's president and either his actions are defendable or they're not. And by any objective standard it's becoming harder and harder to claim that they are.
Well said, thank you.
I was very concerned with Clinton fatigue and Bernie being touted as a Socialist (omg, compassion and fairness, it's not American !).
And to be fair, our government is bloated and byzantine, and if something good comes from that nitwit reality star shaking things up, well - good.
But he's not any kind of working-class hero, and other than racists and rich people, I don't see how he appeals to anyone.
"And to be fair, our government is bloated and byzantine, and if something good comes from that nitwit reality star shaking things up, well - good."
This I agree is some good that may come out of all this.
"But he's not any kind of working-class hero, and other than racists and rich people, I don't see how he appeals to anyone"
But perhaps most disturbing is that it's not just racists and rich people that he appeals to. He did manage to tap into a segment of good honest folks who felt left behind by the system. My issue is that while those folks may have a legitimate gripe, they hitched their wagon to the least worthy (and least capable) person imaginable to take up their cause.
Though you didn't mind Hussein Obama race baiting for 8 years.
shareWell first off I just stuck up for Trump supporters by saying that many of them were good honest people.
Second, President Obama didn't race bait for 8 years. Considering you refer to him by Hussein instead of Barack or just Obama, it's clear that you're racist yourself (yeah I know, you're not...you have some great justification for using his middle name). Not going to bother responding to you because you're not worth responding to. Good day.
Hussein Obama
shareTrue
shareAre you really stupid enough to believe the FBI would damage their investigation by revealing evidence to the public before their investigation has completed?
Are you really stupid enough to believe they've gotten indictment after indictment without any evidence?
The only thing your post describes are the inner workings of your head.
Are you stupid enough to not think the FBI acts with impunity and has no concerns about infringing on it's citizens rights?
shareIf that was standard, then we shouldn't have an FBI. Is that what the republicans are calling for these days?
shareI don't know,you should ask one. I'm all for getting rid of the FBI
shareYou only want the FBI gone to save your precious Trump. That's how low this president has reduced your standards.
shareYou have no idea why I'd want anything,and to presume to know my motivations just so you can shit on Trump is exactly what I expect from the bitter left. You are clearly a tool, so feel free to fuck off.
shareYou aren't fooling anyone. The FBI wasn't a problem for you until it went after Trump.
shareThe FBI wasn't a problem for the GOP when they were after Hillary throughout 2016 - right up until the end of October, 2016. The FBI were heroes, and doing a fine job with Hillary.
Then they started their fine job on T-rump, and that was it.
Exactly. The Trump shills are stuck in a box. If the FBI's current investigation into Trump is bogus, then their investigation into Hillary was even more bogus because it went on way longer and produced no indictments. There's no way they can rationalize the FBI being honest actors against Hillary and corrupt against Trump. It requires mental gymnastics so warped that it only works on other Trump cultists.
share"If the FBI's current investigation into Trump is bogus, then their investigation into Hillary was even more bogus because it went on way longer and produced no indictments. There's no way they can rationalize the FBI being honest actors against Hillary and corrupt against Trump."
BINGO!
There was collusion. The proof has been revealed hasn't it? Or will be soon. Then goodbye Dumpy!
shareMeanwhile, the Obama administration directed federal agencies not to enforce laws they don't like (immigration law, marijuana statutes, etc). How the fuck is that not obstruction of justice?
shareThe most accurate account of evidence of collusion brought forward to date courtesy the hate filled demokkkrats, their lemmings, and everyone’s favorite Russian tweeter bots.
https://youtu.be/lw2BVI9OhC4
[spoiler]#HateDoesNotCreate[/spoiler]
I'm not young, and I've seen over-and-over again how the current Neo-Cons love to crow about the faults they see in their opponents (Dems) are the ones they themselves created. They (not you) are hate-filled, they (not you) are the lemmings being driven to a fever pitch, they (not you) cry like snowflakes while they accuse Dems of being snowflakes. It happens over-and-over, and they (not you) figure if they do it loud enough and long enough, it'll gain traction. And following the lemming analogy, they're right. It's just ugliness coming from a cynical, manipulative neo-con camp, likely augmented by overseas bots. Neos love confrontational politics, while Dems want social justice = opportunity for the little guy, worker solidarity, universal health care, reasonable gun restriction.
shareGd5150 is a Russian bot. More than obvious with his repetitive posts.
shareAnother winning post.
Sometimes it’s scary how easy it is to predict the left.