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Trump imposing tariffs on 25% Steel and 10% Aluminum [Trade War]

posted 7 years ago by Rorikon (17855)
20 replies | jump to latest

Biggest exporter of these materials to the US is Canada which will be hit hard once this goes through. Backlash will probably be tariffs on US goods be it food or whatnot. Going screw lot of people for sure.

Sure, everyone (mostly cons) said Obama was weak on foreign policy and was see bending the knee to other nations, now we see Trump doing the same but in other ways. I wonder if Trump is trying to turn the US into Wakanda isolationist mode. Would be funny if we start losing allies. We barely have the full diplomacy 'soft' power set up for the embassies we have.

[–] fatdogtavern (67) 7 years ago

In Trump We Trust! Be honest, don't you feel so much better with him in charge than with BO at the helm?

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

Doesn't really affect me either way whose in charge be it Obummer or Trump. I don't hate Obama nor like him but I thought he was an okay kind of person. I just didn't like the immigration from terrorist prone regions or illegals he made for them (DACA I am fine with). I tend to stay away from the extremes of both sides cause that's where all the toxicity comes from.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

We know the biggest terrorist factory of the Middle East is Saudi Arabia, we learned that firsthand from 911.

Did Trump put any restrictions on Saudi Arabia, be it immigration or travel restrictions?

None whatsoever.

That's because he has business interests in Saudi Arabia as it was widely reported he registered eight new businesses in Saudi Arabia during the campaign. They also feted him like a king when he traveled there last year. He's easily manipulated by flattery and promptly awarded them with a hundred billion dollar arms deal.

That's the problem with a president who refused to divest his financial interests when he became president, he's going to be looking out for his own interests before the American people he was elected to serve.

You're mistaken if you think Trump's arbitrarily defined travel ban makes you safer from terrorism.

Trump is massively corrupt and blatantly profiting off the office of the presidency. Whatever criticisms I have of past presidents Obama OR Bush, I at least rest assured knowing that whatever decisions they made they truly thought they were doing so with the country's best interests in mind, as misguided as that might have been at times for both of them.

Trump always looks out for #1 first, and that puts us in a far more perilous situation with regards to our security.

This was on full display with his intention to start a trade war. There ARE NO WINNERS IN A TRADE WAR. Everyone loses. It will hurt us the consumer with the massive hike in prices, from construction building new office buildings to car manufacturers. Their hike in costs is going to make things WAY more expensive for us.

That's why Wall Street dropped 400+ points yesterday wiping out all the gains made so far in fiscal 2018. The guy's a disaster and his ignorance on trade, should his aides not talk him out of this silliness, will have epic consequences.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

Trump's so-called travel ban never went into affect thanks to some Mexican judge and was shot down twice if I recall so I am not sure what the point was of making that statement.

Trump does what he does best, being a shrill businessman which comes with the corruption in mind or what the law allows and the chaos that ensues is the result of being a corrupt or rather shrill businessman with no laws to stop these kind of things or loopholes not closed. The worse he's done is the unethical practices made which he's forced to pay off in fines but has never crossed the point where he would be jailed for it. Just shows how useless the senate is and the people that elect them into these positions that never fix these problems cause there is big money lining their pockets.

Trump's always talked of countries ripping US off and he is right to some degree. The issue is, what can we do about it other than the last resort of imposing tariffs which leads to a trade war?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

"Trump's so-called travel ban never went into affect thanks to some Mexican judge "

The Judge of Mexican decent was involved in the Trump University case.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

Ah, right. Thx for the correction. A federal judge in Hawaii then a federal judge in Maryland then a judge in Hawaii again so 3 travel ban attempts, not 2.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

What do you mean? The Supreme Court ruled in early December the travel ban was allowed to go into effect while appeals were being heard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/us/politics/trump-travel-ban-supreme-court.html

He's lost the two appeals so far, and the Supreme Court agreed to hear his third appeal in April. Meanwhile the ban was allowed to go ahead.

I brought it up because you cited not liking "immigration from terrorist prone regions" attributing that to Obama when our immigration policies have been that way long before Obama. Bush welcomed the Saudis too.

The claim of countries "ripping us off" is once again based in Trump's massive ignorance of the economics of international trade, or more likely in this case, him being the liar and conman he is. He cites Japan "ripping us off" in that 1980s dated Oprah show during Japan's 80s economic boom before their economy fell off a cliff at the end of that decade.

Notice how Trump never mentions Japan anymore and China has become the present boogeyman for his xenophobic diatribes of who is "ripping us off".

As countries, we have trade agreements. US consumers depend on cheaply manufactured goods manufactured in China by US companies. But it's US companies that are deciding to move their factories to China to take advantage of the cheap labor market.

So how is that China "ripping us off"? It's US companies that benefit from reaping more profit from offshoring. It's the US government that benefits from the additional tax revenue they get from those increased profits, and it reflects on the US GDP. Trump *should* know this firsthand since he hires cheap foreign labor and has offshored manufacturing to China in the past. To claim China is stealing from us is absurd when it's our own businesses that opt to do business there to maximize profits in order to benefit themselves.

So once again it's Trump being the consummate liar that he is because he has a natural feel of a conman who knows how to play to the fears of his base.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

Ugh! There were so many appeals and repeals that I lost count since there were many temporary blocks which I counted as a win albeit short so there was a bit of a confusion with them.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/20/trump-travel-ban-timeline-legal-journey.html

So a final ruling in June basically.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

"Trump's so-called travel ban never went into affect thanks to some Mexican judge"

WOW. Some 'Mexican' Judge?

So you think it would have had a much better chance with an Irish, Scottish, German or even Slovenian judge?

[–] ThreeTenToYuma (922) 7 years ago

The Saudi government has taken a firm stand against terrorism and is a major ally of the US. The same cannot be said for nations on the travel ban list.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

The Saudi government has done nothing to moderate the hard line anti-Western Salafi doctrine in Wahhabi Islam that the Saudi Arabian government exports to the rest of the Sunni Muslim world ... which in turn serves as the theocratic underpinning for Islamic extremism, in spite of repeated US urging to do so.

They refuse because they know it's that extremist form of Islam that allows them to keep a vise grip on power to continue enriching themselves from the country's oil revenues while sharing only a pittance with the Saudi people.

15 of 19 of the 911 hijackers being Saudi speaks for itself. Even the terrorists that weren't from Saudi Arabia were products of Salafi doctrine originating and exported from Saudi Arabia. The embrace the Saudi Royals have with this extremist brand of Islamic ideology breeds the threat of terrorism more than any of the governments of the countries on the travel ban list.

Personally, I don't support any travel ban since the threat from foreign bred Islamic terrorism is so tiny to be practically negligible compared to home grown terrorism, particularly right wing terrorism if you just look at the statistics.

But if you're going to have a Muslim travel ban you're making it a total joke and highlighting how corrupt you are by leaving Saudi Arabia off the list because it would hurt your personal financial interests in the country.

[–] ThreeTenToYuma (922) 7 years ago

1. The 9/11 attacks were a long time ago. Most governments (Saudi included) cooperated with the US in the aftermath of those attacks. The nations on the travel ban list have been and remain hostile to the US.

2. It isnt surprising that most hijackers were Saudi since bin Laden himself was Saudi. Nevertheless, the Saudi government cracked down on Al Qaeda years before 9/11. Bin Laden was stripped of his citizenship and Al Qaeda was outlawed. These are facts.

3. Like most responsible businessmen, Trump doesn't have business interests in countries that support terrorism. Since the travel ban only includes nations that sponsor terrorism (or are psychotically anti-American), none of his business interests are affected. He isnt going to set up a golf course in Khartoum.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

1. Yes, but again, Saudi Arabia has done nothing to address the root cause of that terrorism in the 17 years since 911, which is to moderate the doctrine of the of fundamentalist Islam that drives Islamic extremism and terrorism. You don't seem to understand that Saudi Arabia is a religious theocracy and its state sponsored ultraconservative Wahhabi brand of Islam is the defining feature of a country viewed by all Muslims as Islam's religious homeland. You have 2 million Muslims that make a religiously obligated pilgrimage to the Hajj every year. The fundamentalist Wahhabi doctrine is considered the predominant interpretation of Sunni Islam and Sunnis make up 90% of all Muslims. This is a doctrine that treats every word of the Quran as literal and true and is the root cause of extremism and terrorism. Even worse is that not just their own country, but being the chief exporter of the doctrine is the influence they have on breeding extremism and terrorism worldwide.

So the Saudi government can cooperate all they want with the US. But until they actually work to moderate the interpretation of their religious scriptures and don't require that it be taken literally by law, they're still an unofficial state sponsor of terrorism.

2. It isn't surprising Bin Laden was an extremist because he was born and bred in the terrorist indoctrination factory known as Saudi Arabia.

3. Of course because if Trump had business interests there, that country wouldn't be on the travel ban. See Saudi Arabia.

[–] ThreeTenToYuma (922) 7 years ago

Saudi Arabia isn't on the travel ban list because they're an ally of the US. It has nothing to do with him selling a hotel to a Saudi prince 20 years ago. LOLLLLLLLLLLLL

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

My only beef with SA is that they don't even own up to the terrorism after the fact. People were going to sue the country and the country threatened to sell of most if not all US assets/bonds which is why no legal proceeding ever went though but we're constantly reminded of 9/11 memorials though, heh.

http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-threatens-to-sell-us-assets-over-911-bill-2016-4
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-saudi-threat-20160418-snap-htmlstory.html

[–] fatdogtavern (67) 7 years ago

So eyeDEF, you're saying that since the ban did not extend to SA that it is NOT a muslim ban as the left would have us believe? Thanks for clearing that up!

As far as a "trade war" that's never going to happen. Dem's know NOTHING about making an economy productive.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trumps-tariff-on-steel-aluminum-defended-by-wilbur-ross-as-pro-jobs

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

Uh, you seem to be terribly confused seeing how the left has always called it out as a Muslim ban.

It's the Trump administration that tries to pretend it's not when everyone knows it is.

Regardless, I don't fall into any conventional mold of left or right. But my academic background is economics and I'm just calling this out for what it is. Wilbur Ross can't be taken seriously in that article because he fails to mention that industries that buy steel and aluminum employ many times more people than the industries Trump seeks to protect, and it's not even close. Here's a Harvard estimate that it employs 80 times more people than the steel industry.

http://econofact.org/will-steel-tariffs-put-u-s-jobs-at-risk

What's hilarious is you decry "Dems" for knowing nothing about the economy, yet it's Republican leaders and many right wing economists that are also in a panic right now. That's because steel tariffs are recognized across the political divide as a stupid idea. Not only does it risk the net loss of jobs, but it will certainly invite retaliation from the WTO. Bush tried to impose tariffs on steel (more narrowly defined than Trump's) briefly in 2003 but caved when the WTO leveled retaliatory tariffs at the US aimed at crippling key US industries in Bush swing states.

And if you knew anything about the economics of trade, if there's one global organization more powerful than US economic might, it's the WTO.

For you I'd recommend this book on the source of 1970s stagflation brought on by Nixon's protectionist policies:

https://www.amazon.com/Nixons-Economy-Booms-Busts-Dollars/dp/0700608885

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

I have to assume you're being sarcastic about feeling better with Trump in charge. If you mean more entertaining by the constant dysfunction and uncertainty from having such a colossally ignorant wildcard in charge, then I can see how some people might prefer the added amusement.

Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of national and global stability and America's security.

Yesterday Vladimir Putin held a confrontational press conference about a new family of nukes Russia is developing accompanied by video of nukes targeting and obliterating the USA. This would have evoked an immediate and forceful response from any other president who actually cared about our national security. The exception of course being Putin's cowering puppet clown.

Putin senses weakness from the dysfunction and chaos coming out of American leadership, and he's fully pressing this advantage.

[–] Rorikon (17855) 7 years ago

Yeah, I saw the nukes. I heard him talk about it in the past when Obama was in office. The focus was US can spend their billions upon billions on military while Russia only has to focus on defeating said tech a fraction of the cost. Heck I even heard they have a hypersonic missile that can outrun any of US's current missile defense.

http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/02/russia-tests-terrifying-unstoppable-bride-satan-hypersonic-nuclear-missile-7354813/
http://nationalpost.com/news/world/introducing-the-avangard-hypersonic-missile-a-look-inside-putins-new-high-tech-arsenal

'high-speed underwater drone which also has an ‘intercontinental’ range and is capable of slamming a nuclear warhead into both aircraft carriers and coastal facilities.' < - I wonder if it's possible to do damage to aircraft carries with nuke explosions below. I think that is possible but to what extent I am not sure. I'm interested to see how US can counter this since these are very likely scenarios. War is changing fast with the introduction of AI and ease of drone use.

While this could be a bluff that isn't finalized for full deployment, I say never underestimate an enemy. US seems unimpressed so if they have something better or can counter, I would have some worry.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

Putin and Russian nationalists generally have a deep insecurity complex over losing the cold war and Putin as a former KGB lifer has a tendency to view every attempt to democratize by the Baltic state countries formerly under the Soviet Union as a conspiratorial US plot to overthrow him.

This is very dangerous and has all the makings of the dawn of a new cold war.

Russia knows that their economic output is one tenth the size of the US economy and half the size of the state of California alone. That means the US could easily spend Russia into the ground in a nuclear arms race and Putin knows it. It's also why he's invested, not so much in their military, but in asymmetric warfare against the US.

Russia's plot to help get Trump elected in order to sow chaos and divisiveness so the US will be too distracted internally to worry about Russian advances has been an overwhelming success. He's going to press the advantage for as long as we have our guard down.

It's unknown at this point whether the nuclear capabilities Putin boasted about are real or if he's bluffing. Tactical deception is a big part of the KGB Active Measures playbook so it could be a con. But that matters little in the moment since his announcement still achieves the same short term effect on geopolitics. It raises Russia's power and prestige on the global stage since the uncertainty of whether Russia has these capabilities increases the fear countries have of Russia, which subsequently gives them more diplomatic leverage to achieve their objectives.