Looks like Rex is ne☠t...
Saw a headline this morning that said Rex called don a moron...next thing I know...the story is he's on the verge of splitting...hilarious!
share Time for bets how long until Rex is gone? And will it be a resignation or an all out your fired event?
He's maybe the only one I truly believe will stick in there and force trumps hand...not that I'm a tillerson fan, but I'd love to see him kick the stuffing outta the orange bitch tit...I'm with full on you're fired!
share oh wow the rex story just pushed the vegas shooting off cnns headlines.
My prediction is trump will fire tillerson but try to give the impression that tillerson was incompetent for some time and that he had been planning to fire him before the "Moron" comment came out.
👍👍👍
Just turned on CNN and yup...no Vegas...Headline was Tillerson won't deny calling trump a moron...this is the Secretary of State...unreal.
I think CNNs lost perspective if they still think the soap opera in the administration is bigger then Vegas.
True, but to be fair to them, it is kind of a headlines run down...moments later it was PR...then more Vegas...now trump visits Vegas, and even as I hit submit they are back to the shooters GF...guess it is 6:00 so they are competing with the networks so they gotta give you the day's news. But I get what you're saying...the (trump) show must go on!!!
share I just don't get that were already day 3 and theres no speculation as to a motive for the gunman. Thats really why I keep going back to CNN then I see trump and I just roll my eyes and close the browser. Why aren't we hearing anything about a motive. What kind of person was this? Who cares what Bob Porker is saying about trump. Theres bigger news happening.
Guess I stopped caring about the motivations of mad men a while ago. Often they are never known and even when we are able to glean the thoughts behind the crimes the answers often fail to bring closure to the friends and families of the victims or the nation that mourns with them. Making matters worse is the fact that no matter the motives...nothing is going to be discovered that would be useful towards being able to prevent future tragedies. We all know what is at the root of the problem...no matter whether it's Vegas, Pulse, Sandy Hook, Columbine or the Texas tower sniper,who killed 16 people on a summer day in 1966...11 of which he
Killed with a high powered rifle from the 28th floor observation deck at the university of Texas Austin...we know...we just won't act. This tragedy will change nothing nor would knowing the thoughts of the madman that engineered it.
What is the extent of gun control your advocating. I was shocked to learn bumpstock was legal and I'm ready to see that go but I'm not gonna give up my right for self defense. I think disarming "Law" abiding citizens is the wrong idea. I'm suprised the ATF didn't investigate the 47 guns this guy pruchased. Usually that raises red flags as the ATF would suspect your acting as an unlicensed gun dealer at that point. I've been threatened by a criminal and the police were useless. The criminal didn't back off till I armed my self with an Licence to Carry so he lost interest in me. He is in jail on murder charges as he shot a girl in the face so I feel justified in my decision to purchase a firearm. There are criminals out there that don't give a danm about gun control or the law. Either all guns get vaporised at once or certain gun patrol policies just make us more vulnerable.
shareActually I never advocated anything. I said we all know what is at the root of the problem. It was written to be intentionally ambiguous...I wanted people to arrive at an opinion organically. I honestly did not think anyone(either liberal or conservative) would go with hatred in our society, angry men,angry white men or anti social disorders even though they all are major components in these crimes, I deep down inside knew EVERYONE would chose guns and run with it. By allowing people to arrive at a conclusion on their own (i.e. Guns) I go along way towards dismissing the argument guns don't kill people...people kill people...notice you nor anyone else has said...angry white men are the problem...nope...it was guns that allowed a mad man to kill with horrific efficiency. As far as what I advocate...nothing! As I said before...nothing will change so why waste my time? If you asked me what I would like to see in the future as far as gun control goes? Simple...sensibility! But we are so far from that, that i don't even know where to start...but I will soldier on...
First we have to address laws or the lack there of. You posed an interesting question in regards to ATF missing red flags in Vegas...there is a simple explanation for that. The ATF monitors no legal fire arms sales to citizens in the United States...I gonna give you a beat to google that...that should do.
As you have now read...the ATF is only involved in the manufacture and dealer end of the operation. They monitor and inspect the manufacturers and approve licenses and investigate crimes that pertain to dealers. They do track guns...but only those that are known to be involved in crimes already committed. But there is a national data bank with all the back ground checks and a list of all who have legally purchased guns...right? (Cue sad trombone music!) NOPE...no national data bank...PERIOD!!! By federal law only background checks are preformed and that info is destroyed within 24 hour of completion...
I know an ex vietnam vet that was investigated by the ATF for his large amount of collector guns. They wanted to make sure he wasn't buying and selling with out a Federal fire arms license at least thats what he told me. Oh I see so by destroying the background check there is effectivly no registration of the fire arm. Odd wonder why we are expected to list the serial number of a gun when its purchased if those records arn't kept.
Anyways the whole bump stock thing pissed me off. I was really suprised that was legal. They skirt automatic weapons laws as the law restricts actual automatics that actually work with one depression. Bump stocks bypass that rule as the trigger is rapidlly pressed in and out to achive its automation so our laws need to be changed to imply an actual muscle pull of the finger is required to fire off a single round.
I'm not convinced angry white men is the problem though just by the vast numbers on crime data.
Serial numbers are catalogued at the manufacturer...it's about inventory...can be used in investigations if all the stars align properly.
Example...a S&W was sold to joes gun shop...joe sold it leagally...a year later Sam takes gun and shoots someone. Let's say joe remembers Sam or has video...and voilà...other than that or similar circumstances...useless! Unless you want to argue there are lots of gun laws that aren't enforced...then it makes great straw for that straw man argument.
And I'm not saying they are. I was pointing out potential root problems that could have been identified as the main contributing factor, but weren't...guns were what you honed in on...guns are what everyone blames,even when they don't know they are.
share Oh com on the topic is Mass Shootings which is the laundry list of mass shooting events you listed dn't try to kid us you were clearly talking about guns. And you also mentioned people refuse to do anything about it which has been the lefts only talking point throuh out this.
And just what were you really talking about since you are diliberatly being ambigous.
Actually the topic wa Rex tillersons potential exit...it was you that hijacked my topic and that is fine...this has been far more
Cerebral, but please employ common curtesy. If you do not understand a point of mine...ask with some degree of respect.
I'm not trying to kid anyone...but I am not going to give fire to a loaded question either. Oh...and just to give some clarity to another of your assumptions...I am not liberal but progressive!
As I've explained...the root was left ambiguous so readers could draw their own conclusions...did I know where people,including yourself, would land...OF COURSE! But once again...anyone COULD have drawn a different conclusion...is it my fault they didn't? You yourself could have argued...no it's a hatered in society thing,or an angry white male thing(and just to be clear...I'm a white male about 47years. You took issue with that in another post and I just wanted you too know I'm not banging on whitey,but plenty of my peers are angry.) Nope...you went right to guns! And actually you went right to gun control, and now as of this post you have conveniently dropped the control and have me pigeon holed as anti gun it seems. More clarification...I own more guns than probably anyone you have ever met...granddad was an avid collector and personal friends with 4 governors in our state. In our state...a signed permission slip could be issued to grant permission for fully auto,gernades and even tanks...gramps had a Sherman before I was born! I have a museum quality tommy gun...no ammo!!! I had all ammo destroyed for all the weapons for safety reasons. But the gun...totally leagal...even let our chief of police take it to a function he attended.
Since it was you that brought up the subject of gun control...what if anything would you suggest as an approach?
"Actually the topic wa Rex tillersons potential exit...it was you that hijacked my topic and that is fine...this has been far more
Cerebral, but please employ common curtesy. If you do not understand a point of mine...ask with some degree of respect.
I'm not trying to kid anyone...but I am not going to give fire to a loaded question either. Oh...and just to give some clarity to another of your assumptions...I am not liberal but progressive!"
I don't usually use the terms Liberal or Progressive If I did I appologize I usually refer politics of that nature as "left leaning". But I know the terms liberal and progressive are synonamouse but for some reason liberal is perceived as a pejorative term on the left.
".I'm a white male about 47years. You took issue with that in another post and I just wanted you too know I'm not banging on whitey,but plenty of my peers are angry.)"
The race of the shooter never crossed my mind. We pro gun/anti gun folks all had the same reaction. How did this nut get away with gaining access to automatic gunfire be legal. These were banned in the 30s yet some loop hole allowing bump fire to skirt the law. We are just as suprised as you. We all want to know what motivated this individual and to be honest your dialog right after that implied "What does it matter the root of the problem is guns". If you want to claim your thoughs were more on hatred in society that is certainly a "MOTIVATION" which you seemed to be ignoring in your original statement. What are we left to discuss if you take motivation out of the equation other then the tools(guns) of the tragedy.
"As I've explained...the root was left ambiguous so readers could draw their own conclusions...did I know where people,including yourself, would land...OF COURSE.
Then that statement is hardly ambigous it was a direct implication that was leading to access to guns.
I'm on the fence about banning AR-15s (On the fence not commited) but extended magazines are fair game.
And what data shows the vast number of mass shootings are committed by any other group than white males? Link please! As far as their anger goes...they kill innocent people by the dozens! They certainly don't seem to be the whistling a tune easy going walk in the park types sooo...
sharei'm not even talking about mass shootings I'm talking about homicide in general. But we do have the pulse night club and san bernadino to name a few. I'm not trying to get into a race war but yuor the one that tried to bring race into this.
shareBut we WERE talking about mass shootings. If you meant to expand the criteria to overall gun violence, then you need to clarify this using words...my esp is getting rusty in my old age LOL. As far as deaths by fire arms...you would have to discuss illegally obtained firearms,suicide...child deaths...google the stats on that one...SHAMEFUL!!!And a host of other contributing factors...
Considering I am a white male...I feel comfortable in expressing the NOTION that it COULD easily play a part. Guess since guns don't kill people...people kill people...I thought a face for these people might shed some light on root problems...but you just don't seem to care about the cause aspect of cause and effect.
You don't believe guns are a problem, gender, race and the woes of society don't seem to stir a positive reaction from you...so...what then...getting rid of bumpstocks and understanding the thought process of an individual madman will solve this? Because that is all you have brought.
Agreed gun deaths are a large superset including the 2/3s suicides.
"Considering I am a white male...I feel comfortable in expressing the NOTION that it COULD easily play a part. Guess since guns don't kill people...people kill people..."
I don't really subscribe to the guns don't kill people. I subscribe to the idea that "if you outlaw firearms only outlaws will have firearms". Idealy it would be nice if we could get rid of all 300million or so guns in the U.S. but the sad truth is we can't. If you ban law abiding citizens from carrying guns then were all sitting ducks like those poor people that got massicured. I personally was never a big pro gun guy till I had that encounter with a criminal who would love the idea that good people don't carry weapons and would love a world where good people arn't allowed to walk around with the tools to protect themselves.
"thought process of an individual madman will solve this? Because that is all you have brought."
This is kinda of the ruse of your argument. Let me ask you then Do you want to talk about Race and gender? or do you want to talk about guns? You seem to be flipping on what you wish to blame this on?
As I mentioned...ATF deals with leagal gun dealers as well as manufacturers ...if your friend was a dealer he would definitely fall under their jurisdiction.
shareNever mind. I just told you he wasn't a dealer. He had a large collection which some how attracted the ATF to see if he was selling these large amounts of guns he was purchasing. I don't know if some one made a complaint or if he triggered some flag in a computer algorithm.
share[deleted]
I know...right? And why would they keep track? No one has to keep track at a gun show...no law prevents me from selling a gun to an individual from my own collection, and nothing prevents me from purchasing from either source.
Probably the most comprehensive list of legal or illegal fire arm owners would exist within the NRA...maybe they will cooperate out of the goodness of there own hearts and a sence of civic responsibility and make this list available to the population...yeah right! On a final note on laws...the disarmament law you refer to is...a myth! No legislation of the type you refer to has ever been proposed in any legal venu. No politician has ever written a proposal in the vein of such.
There is a good reason for this...both parties love guns! After Sand Hook legislation was proposed,but failed to even get a hearing...that takes bi partisan cooperation unlike we have seen since...20 children were MURDERED IN COLD FUCKNIG BLOOD and it had the opposite effect...gun sale, especially that of assault rifles went through the roof! And I know...but this time is different...and you are correct...now it's bumpstocks that are flying off the shelves along with AFs...we are doubling down. This tragedy will change nothing...bumptocks,ARs and extended mags will stay, and we will most likely see the proposed legislation legalizing sound suppresses pass...I hope I'm wrong,but using history as an indicator, I doubt I am.
As far as your personal experiences...this is a tough one. I feel for those subjected to horrors and understand their desire to arm and defend themselves. I unfortunately also am neighbors with a lovely woman who was my neighbor since childhood up until I was twenty. At about the age of 40 I had the pleasure to call her my neighbor again! She was released from the state penn for killing her abuser after serving the better part of twenty years of a life sentence....sometimes shit don't have that Hollywood ending...you feel me?
I also had an aunt by marriage who was disarmed and killed with her own gun...so I urge caution when traveling that road.
Anyway...that turned out to be way longer than I thought it would be...but complicated situations with no reasonable solutions often play out that way...
"I also had an aunt by marriage who was disarmed and killed with her own gun...so I urge caution when traveling that road."
Sounds like she made the same mistake I did and hesitated to fire. I survived a car jacking as well. Crime is getting really bad here and I'm glad to learn that law abiding citizens are getting fed up and fighting back here in my area.
"As far as your personal experiences...this is a tough one. I feel for those subjected to horrors and understand their desire to arm and defend themselves. I unfortunately also am neighbors with a lovely woman who was my neighbor since childhood up until I was twenty. At about the age of 40 I had the pleasure to call her my neighbor again! She was released from the state penn for killing her abuser after serving the better part of twenty years of a life sentence....sometimes shit don't have that Hollywood ending...you feel me? "
Not worried about hollywood endings. I'd rather be alive. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that she was probably convicted of murder rather then self defence. Don;t assume the rest of the gun owning population can't distinguish when its time to defend our selves.
Your limb just snapped! There is no such charge as death by self defense...it would be a varying degree of manslaughter...of which she was convicted. You factor out two important facts pertaining to trials in America. First is very basic...you have to convince a jury. Second is way more tricky...it's the times we live in or to be more precise...the racial climate we lived in circa 1987. My neighbor is white...her abuser black...the jury was all white...mostly male...they simply had no time for a race trading skank so they deliberated for a grand total of...wait for it...4 minutes. This after two weeks of defense testimony including death threats,prior convictions and a slew of other evidence that painted a pretty cut and dried case of domestic abuse...
The actual charge in my state is justifiable manslaughter...some states do call it justifiable homocide however...we'll call that one a draw...
shareProsecutors ended up charging her with voluntary manslaughter...big difference!
shareThats an odd one. That usually means something like a fight broke out then "opps I didn't mean to kill them". Yet a gun was involved. I guess it was a case of she pulled the gun to raise apprehension in the suspect but accidentally fired in a struggle. If the jury went that route then they are wrong cause during a struggle it was clearly self defense if the gun went off.
share I apologise I confused your aunt with your neighbor. If I understand correctly your aunt was disarmed and hesitated to fire. It was your neighbor that was charged for killing their abuser. Is this correct?
And the question in court for your "neighbor" was to establish if she was in danger or all out murder. I don't know the facts of the case but I know that is the question that was bing answered. Your implying the jury was raciest but I find that counterintuitive that they (an allegedly raciest jury) would punish a white woman for killing a black man.
In terms of domestic abuse society would be asking why this woman maintained the relationship
rather then leaving. Periodic domestic abuse isn't justification for homicide. In terms of self defense did the woman show physical injuries when she shot the abuser? Guns are for self defense against immediate grace threat not an exit strategy for an abusive relationship.
".the disarmament law you refer to is...a myth! No legislation of the type you refer to has ever been proposed in any legal venu. No politician has ever written a proposal in the vein of such. "
You lost me. what legislation are you refering to. What disarment legislation.
think disarming "Law" abiding citizens is the wrong idea...figured you were talking about a law (legislation) that woul disarm citizens. It's my mistake...some of your thought were difficult for me to understand...thought maybe English wasn't your first language...my apologies.
share I'm just against laws that by in large favor criminals. For example theres only a few thousand Automatic weapons (Minus the bump stock nonsense) floating around the country so I'm all for an automatic weapons ban not to many criminals have them I hope. On the other hand there are a lot of extended magazines(over 10 to 15 rounds) floating around like over 40million from what I've read so banning them only favors a criminal. Also restricting concealed carry permits only favors the criminal.
In my state if you have even a class C misdemeanor for disorderly conduct you banned from having a permit. Thats a good law as only people with spotless records are allowed to carry guns in public. That favors the law abiding citizen. We all know criminals don't give a danm about carry permits so taking away permits from clean citizens only helps criminals as they are going to carry anyways. I wish the police were more responsive but their not they get to the scene 18 minutes too late and lately seem to treat the victims as suspects so its not wonder people are arming themselves. We have a right to defend our selves. I don't like these mass shootings but I have the right to defend my self in public in an area where the police have an average response time of 9 to 18 minutes.
To clarify my point. I consider denying Carry permits to law abiding citizens as effectively disarming law abiding citizens in public spaces.
Well one thing is certain...this conversation,although quite stale now...WILL be fresh again in a matter of months, spring time at the very latest...you know it's true. I most likelywon't partake however...didn't start this thread to discuss gun control and I'm not fond of explaining my position only to have whole portions ignored then to be replaced by opinions I do not possess...that's just bad manners☹️☹️☹️ I'll take responsibility for the thread ending up reading like the literary equivalent to a superfund site
Though...I could tell by your third post that you were operating on pure emotion, while I am a slave to logic. Unfortunately, in this day and age,emotion always wins...just look at Veags!
I don't know why you took my posts as hostil and I won't discuss this any more in this thread since you are indicating I hijacked your thread. In terms of ignoring portions thats not really fair since you started chain posting in response to just one of my replies. I sure that happened because theirs some kind of character limit to these posts. I'm not sure why your reading emotion in this. But I'm leaving the discussion.
shareI thought it would take months...Saddened to see this today...
shareIn texas your not allowed to carry guns in church. LTC or not. I'm suprised it took this long.
shareIt didn't take long at all. There were previous mass shootings in a church in South Carolina in 2015 and last September, and Sikh temple in 2012. Churches, schools, nightclubs are probably common as far as mass shootings go along with work sites, shopping areas and sidewalks.
Texas church is the 378th mass shooting for 2017 in the U.S.. Major improvement over 477 mass shootings for 2016.
Last sermon on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHw_QeZqHxs
"...theres only a few thousand Automatic weapons (Minus the bump stock nonsense) floating around the country..."
In congressional testimony in 2013, the National Shooting Sports Foundation estimated assault-style weapons domestically in the range of 5 million to 8.2 million.
A November 2012 Congressional Research Service report found that, as of 2009, there were approximately 310 million firearms in the United States: “114 million handguns, 110 million rifles, and 86 million shotguns.”
Guns start off as legal. The irony is that criminals ultimately get their guns from legal gun owners/sellers who want a gun because they fear criminals with a gun.
Mass shooter tracker:
https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data/2017
Update: 147 church shootings from 2006-2016. Looking more broadly at all violence at all houses of worship, more than 250 incidents each in 2015 and 2016. Through August of this year, there had already been 173.