The Russians have only themselves to blame for Stalin... - Joseph Stalin Discussion

[–] papamihel (1616) 5 years ago

True Communism and Stalinism lead to about the same number of the dead.

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[–] kenburke (2396) 3 years ago

The Russians were used to having someone tell them what to do. They did it when the white czars were in power, they did it when the red czars were in power, now they've gone back to doing it with a white czar in power.

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[–] BourbonKing (5788) a year ago

Tsarism led to Communism.

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[–] AckbarsRevenge (3800) a year ago

Tsarism is the path to the Dark Side. Tsarism Leads to Communism. Communism leads to Socialism . Socialism leads to Tiramisuism.

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[–] strntz (12773) a year ago

Tiramisuism is not really that bad..

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[–] Redsfan001 (6218) 5 years ago

Never underestimate the power of fear.

The story of how he died personifies it. After a dinner party and some movies, Stalin had a stroke. It was obvious that something was wrong, but the party guests did not call for a doctor right away out for fear, and when they finally had the courage to do so, the doctor was afriad to treat him out of fear that he would be blamed for his death.

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[–] triplea (3577) 5 years ago

OK at least you finally prove to everyone that you support communism. ie; you're a fucking moron.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I saw some YT video recently that explained how Communism was the path to Democracy, and that it was headed the right way, but for Stalin buggering it all up.

Was Communism really as evil as all that? The only thing I can see is that it's anti-Capitalist, and Capitalism IS evil. I don't recall Americans complaining about Communism at all, not until after the Second World War.

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[–] Domi90 (283) 5 years ago

Shut up please. Comunism wants to control people. Capitalism and free market instead take to freedom.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Very true. It's just that capitalism/free market should be kept in check though.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Well, in any case, Stalin was still a DICK. Even more so than Hitler, I would say.

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[–] Satan2016 (26197) 5 years ago

All Commies are dicks.

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[–] aavfreak (3396) 5 years ago

Communism, like any other ideology, is fine as long as it is voluntary. Once force is used to coerce others to live under the same system, it quickly becomes a problem.

This is a problem with all political and economic systems, but some are worse than others once force becomes involved.

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[–] marktayloruk (2590) 3 years ago

The Communists after seizing power ignored a democratic election in which they came second. The Bolshevik terror regime of Lenin and Trotsky tolerated no dissent and executed their opponents, treating class enemies in the way Hitler treated the Jews in the 30s. That enough for you? A world without the Bolsheviks would have been better in e very way.

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[–] emori (3674) a year ago

Yes, hon. Communism IS evil. I don't understand what do YOU think communism is but whatever its creators promised people they would do - they never did it. Anywhere.

Communism is an economic ideology that advocates for a classless society in which all property and wealth are communally owned, instead of being owned by individuals.

You know what's funny? For 70 years people in USSR lived in Communism. And to the last day when it crushed down in 1991 - they were still waiting for that Bright Communism to come. The one they were promised. And commie leaders promised them that it will come one day.

In USSR everyone were equally poor. But not completely, of course. All those who were in charge, mayors, governors, ministers, directors of factories, singers, actors, sports people etc - they all had better salaries, better food, they had cars, were receiving better houses/apartments. basically like it happens in Capitalism.

Regular people could not by a car. They had to wait in line for 5-10 years. Because production of cars was so low that there werent much f them produced. People had to wait in line to even buy good furniture. Everything was "cheap" on paper. But you could not buy it anywhere.

People in USSR did not know what Bananas is. Only people in Moscow could get them somewhere. Kiwi, pineapples, mango were too exotic for USSR people. Microwaves got into post-USSR countries around 1995.

Because life was so poor during Communism - people were not allowed out of country. So that they would not escape. Very few people like diplomats, singers, sports people were allowed for short travels. And KGB agents were watching them so they would not escape. Many still tried and did escape.

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[–] pundit2006 (173) a year ago

They may not have complained about it but even before WW2 some Americans were smart enough not to believe in it.

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[–] prometheus1816 (1060) 3 years ago

No, the Russian people are not to blame for the rise of Stalin. Lenin is responsible for allowing him into his inner circle to allow Stalin to begin to move the pieces to seize the leadership from Lenin. Read the book "Stalin: The First In-depth Biography Based on Explosive New Documents from Russia's Secret Archives" by Russian playwright Edvard Radzinky. It is a gripping account of how he consolidated power behind a carefully cultivated personality.

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[–] emori (3674) a year ago

Russian people are to blame for everything that happened in their country. LOL. Stalin, Lenin, Putin are not some aliens that crash landed there and took leadership using their powers. russians put them there.

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[–] prometheus1816 (1060) a year ago

Oligarchs, mafias, Lenin, Stalin, Putin, etc al are solely responsible for what has befallen Russia. Rich university boys like Alexander Lenin, Andrei Zhelyabov....and the like all believed they had the divine right to change the "plight" of the peasants. Problem was, the peasants feared authority. They believed there was themselves and the Tsar. However, the Zemlyai Volya (The Will of the People) were a bunch of Odessa rich boys thinking they knew exactly what the peasants needed, and they set about to doing it. And what they set about to do was to do whatever was necessary to bring Russia to their way of thinking. No matter who was harmed doing it. If it meant the people they claimed to work for had to be lied to, so be it.

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[–] emori (3674) a year ago

in russia everyone know what putin is what he is doing. And they still worship him and approve everything he does. Like 90% of them. So yes - they are responsible for it.

In USSR majority of people worshiped their leaders and communism. That's why there were no revolutions. And now elderly people, even knowing all the horrors Commies did - still worship their past and want to get back to that time they were young. And they don't care how many millions of innocent people Commie leaders killed and put in prisons.

They were extremely poor but they didn't know it. Because they were not allowed to look how other countries live. So they thought it was ok.

If North Korea will get rid of their crazy dictator and would suddenly become free country and they could get nice things and live normal - they would mourn the days they live now in poverty and like in prison. They would remember it like good old days where everything was simple. And when modern things would arrive and they would not be able to buy them - they would understand in what poverty they live now. So they would miss times where everything was simpler. Like it happens in russia now with older people.

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[–] prometheus1816 (1060) a year ago

They are AFRAID of Putin. Full stop. If you think YOU could oppose Putin without ending up in gulag or a vat of acid, feel free.

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[–] emori (3674) a year ago

You don't understand what is happening in russia. Those who don't like putin and are "afraid" - there are like 1% of them. Absolute majority of russians worship putin and support everything he does. There are 140 millions people in russia. If they would want - they would overthrow their dictator long time ago.

If few hundred thousands don't like putin - they can't do anything anyway because MAJORITY loves him.

And even their so-called opposition - they refuse to acknowledge russian's fault in everything. They are imperialists and they just dream that putin will go away one day and they all will have happy ever after and they get mental at the fact that they have to pay reparations to Ukraine. They always say: "It's all putins fault. Leave ordinary russians alone". Despite 90% of them full support putin.

Look at how much palestinians support their leaders. Protesters in Iran could not overthrown their dictators because they were minority and whole country didnt rebel. People on North Korea will defend their crazy dictator and would mourn him if he will die. hitler did not do everything on his own. Whole Germany willingly supported him.

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[–] Redsfan001 (6218) 3 years ago

Hmmmm...

Sounds familiar.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes" ~ Samuel Clemens

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[–] Darren (1460) a year ago

"True" communism? Stalin didn't subvert anything. Tyranny is baked into the cake with communism. If it weren't communism has to be the single unluckiest ideology in history, just coincidentally ending with rule by monsters, caudillos, and incompetents every place it has been tried, ever.

"True" communism will always end up with Stalins, Maos, and Pol Pots running things. I'll never understand how believers in socialism and communism can remain so willfully ignorant of human nature. Hating business, and regarding capitalists as greedy, exploitative plutocrats, their "solution" is to take economic power that in capitalism is divided amongst rival businesses that compete with each other, roll it all up into a ball, and then combine that with the coercive power of the state. The result becomes a great big glittering jewel at the heart of the system that constitutes far too tempting a lure for the power-hungry to resist. You create a winner-take-all system that absolutely ensures a man like Stalin will come and seize it.

The idealists who supposedly understand what "true" communism is... Yeah, they end up like Trotsky: politically outmaneuvered by a more ruthless, power-hungry rival, purged, and ultimately murdered.

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Agreed!...except Trotsky.
Trotsky was an evil murderer himself.

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[–] Darren (1460) a year ago

Oh I agree. The ideology positively attracts authoritarian pieces of shit who want to lord it over other people, and will ruthlessly crush those who resist. I don't claim for an instant Trotsky wasn't also one of them; he absolutely was. I merely point out that our hypothetical "good" communist, who understands and would implement "true" communism (and the sarcastic quotes should indicate how much confidence I have that such creatures are any more real than unicorns) would suffer the same fate as Trotsky: being pulled down by a rival and killed.

In fact, if there were such a "good" communist, who would selflessly bring about the promised utopia if he were running the show, his very selflessness and goodness would virtually guarantee his demise at the hands of the ruthless Stalin types, who wouldn't hesitate to bump him off and take over because they want the power for themselves.

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[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Yep, yep, yep! ♥
When I've read your first post here it reminded me of a heated discussion back in the good old IMDb days. They portrayed Trotsky as this “good” communist, a friendly old grandpa who was sneakily murdered.
But Trotsky wasn't a friendly old grandpa. ☻

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[–] emori (3674) a year ago

russian's dont blame themselves for anything. Many people in russia are actually proud of this tyrant. There is a proverb in russia to this day when people say: "stalin would take care of them" when someone does bad thing. And: "Stuff like this did not happen on stalin's watch".

Don't forget this is same russian's who elected putin and worship him more then they worshiped stalin.

russian's were never victims of stalin, putin, lenin, communism. They are creators and accomplices of them.

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[–] pundit2006 (173) a year ago

Blaming it on all Russians is ridiculous claim. I don't remember hearing about him getting elected. He came to power without any elections.

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[–] emori (3674) a year ago

In russia no one wants elections. They went into basically slavery voluntarily. This is like in their dna or genes. They simply can't and don't want to live in freedom and make their own path. For centuries they were slaves of tsars and were obeying their nobles. And when they were like really-really upset over some living conditions etc - they stood on their knees before their nobles like counts, barons etc and were "rebelling", basically begging something. Instead of riots and unrest.

Their rebelling was on their knees. And that's why they are obsessed with "Standing up from their knees" for the last 30 years. They always say that phrase to themselves. It came from those times. That's why you can see countless of those hilarious videos that russian's are recording addressing putin. Where they beg him personally to fix the road or pipe in their building. Or when they beg him to bring back their husbands from frontline of war to safer place. Because for them he is tsar/king that is noble and fair. They will not go to protests to demand their mayor to fix road. They will stand on their knees and beg putin.

That's why they elected putin once and then allowed him to overtake complete power. They obeyed every crazy new ban he did. And when he will die - they will sincerely mourn him and worship memory about him.

They completely bare responsibility of everything that happened back from tsar times to this day. They KNOW and they DON'T CARE what crimes their leaders do.

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