Redn thinks 5.8 rating equates to great Cinema

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It depends on what you define "cinema" as. As well as what makes it great and not so great.

Maybe it's because Refn isn't literally talking about numbers, let alone needing validation from an aggregated rating on a website. He's admitting that reactions to the film will be extremely divisive (which they've been) and having a laugh about it.


Let's boogie.

I know a lot of people hate OGF but I think its freakin brilliant. Every time I watch it I like it more and more.

Although I thought OGF was garbage and I think Refn's only good work was in the Pusher trilogy (the rest is trash IMO) I don't necessarily disagree with him.

What he's saying seems to be a generational thing. At one time serious, high-minded, artistic directors made movies to challenge and provoke their audience. They weren't looking to be accepted and they didn't want their audience to be entertained. Think of directors like Bergman, Pasolini, Godard; they made movies that were intentionally confrontational, that attacked the sensibilities of the mainstream, that offended and alienated the audience to make a point or just because they could.

They didn't want to produce crowd pleasing movies that audiences would love and watch passively as entertainment, but to make movies that were thought-provoking and would get a response (even if it was a negative one).

After the success of Rocky, Star Wars and Jaws (etc) it became much more about giving the audience characters they could care about; giving them stories that were engaging or scenes that were exciting, immersive and exhilarating. In the age of the internet this has become more intense; with sites like MC, RT, IMDb etc tracking the popular consensus of all movies from the second they're released the idea of a "great movie" tends to be one that is the most popular with the largest group of people. A "bad movie" is one that falls short of universal acclaim.

So while I don't like Refn much as a filmmaker he seems to be saying that he's part of the generation that wants to provoke rather than to please, so for him dividing opinion with his work is something to be proud of.

You make a good argument, but first, is the 5.8 average that you searched made up of only or mostly 10s and 1s? If not, then you're not getting people who loved and hated it. You're getting lots of people agreeing that it was mediocre or worse.

Second, don't you think he's speaking metaphorically? Not that I agree with him, but what he says means to me is that a film which half love and half hate doesn't pander, took risks, is cutting edge, stirs debate on controversial topics, and other possible notions. I actually haven't seen any of his work because I don't go in for violence in films, although I'm thinking of seeing Drive, which is why I'm reading about him. And my taste in film is usually more conventional.

Sometimes, film or music or another kind of art isn't less good just because it's popular. And being popular doesn't mean it's good. What's important isn't the percentage split, but the reasons for it. It's common to hear people (including fans) judge whether something is good by whether it's a commercial success, which can be "everyone love it, it's great; or everyone loves it, they sold out to the mainstream, it's jello). I just try not to let those kind of indices color my opinion of the work and what it means to me.

So, I think Refm's point is valid, he just should have qualified it. And I can see how he has that opinion, even though I don't share it.

Sorry you wasted so much effort on your pedantic "analysis".

But for any creative person whose goal is to do something new and original, of course there are going to be a lot of people who hate it. Every truly great original has been trashed, people rioted when Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" premiered. That's why he's not upset when a lot of people hate his movies, at least he knows he didn't churn out some safe "product" to pander to popular tastes. I think this movie was a reaction to his disappointment that so many people liked "Drive" as merely another bad-ass action movie.

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