MovieChat Forums > Louis C.K. Discussion > That episode a couple years back

That episode a couple years back

posted 7 years ago by [deleted]
12 replies | jump to latest

Of Louis where he basically forces himself on Pamela Adlon's character was so distressing to me, and his ensuing response to people's criticism that it was treating sexual assault as something normal (basically he just said that's not what was intended and nothing more), I stopped watching the show. It just bothered me so much. Some time after that I heard the rumors, and every bit of this comedian's act that I had kind of admired had a completely new undertone. Honestly, still bothered by this one. Felt like finding out something awful about an old friend. I mean, a perverted, gross friend, but an old friend.

[–] brux (14724) 7 years ago

I don't remember that episode ... do you know which one it was.
After starting out not liking LCK, I began to like some of what he did
and think he was funny. Then I watched "Lucky Louie" and "Louie"
which I though were pretty good and saw him in the Woody Allen
movie and began to ... not really like him, but appreciate his humor.
Now, I don't know what to think, but like so many performers I have
liked in the past, when they do something like this I feel like it is my
duty to avoid them. Maybe just watch stuff when it is streaming for
free. I won't spend money to see right-wing performers in movies.
Since Arnold Schwarzenegger cheated on his wife I have not paid for
anything he has done. Right wingers like Jon Voight or Steve Martin
I will just not watch or pay for ever.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

It was called "Pamela Part one" I was really surprised when I just searched for it because there are a lot of new articles about it. I guess a lot of people felt the same way I do about it.

For some reason it's bothering me so much about him in particular because how his comedy is so personal and we see this very human, well human when he writes and performs. I am at fault for giving some artists a pass if I appreciate their work. Polanski, hell, even Van Gogh was a really miserable person that did some questionable things. But if I think about it, If l knew these men IRL, I would stay the hell away from them, talent or no. I guess it come down to: are we looking at a man who has an addiction/impulse control issues, or are we looking at a man abusing his power?

[–] brux (14724) 7 years ago

>> I am at fault for giving some artists a pass if I appreciate their work.

I think we all do, and it is something we should all look at and try to
understand.

I never thought Polanski was good. His movies could have been made by
anyone, and I think that is the case with most directors.

There is something to the enabling one person who has lots of aggression,
and I think a lot of societies evolve out of this ... one forceful guy, or less
often one woman, who has a vision and can force of seduce others to that
vision.

I still do not recall the specifics of Pamela Part 1. I remember the sequence,
but as I recall Pamela was very standoffish with Louie in the episodes and
it was driving him crazy. It made a good point about how men are ... they
want demonstrable dominance and ownership of women ... and if that is
instinctual, asking men to be civilized is kind of a tough ask, and it also gives
women an advantage. Don't mean to come down on either side, just to
point out the impossibility of relationships ... which, darn it, is another thing
that Louie kind of touches on in his humor.

I don't know what should happen to Louie, or any of these guys. I don't
like to see aholes get ahead in life, especially ahead of other people. If
someone is really talented does that mean they get a pass on being
abusive or criminal ... because that is the way it seems?

[–] brux (14724) 7 years ago

OK, I just watched the episode. It's funny because that is a pretty
good episode. Louis leaves Pamela with his kids because he cannot
find a babysitter, comes home and she is asleep on the couch, and
says, "don't start jerking off, because I'm awake".

Then comes the part I assume you are uncomfortable with, and I see
what you mean. I bet almost every guy that has ever lived has a
moment or two that is like that. And, but the way, she makes her
will known and he does not rape Pamela. That is a very complex
scene actually now that I watch it again in the light of what has
happened.

Louis gets mixed signals from Pamela and thinks he is in love, or
lust with her, and tries to work out the ambiguity by being very
pushy ... but is that rape? What is that? There is also the whole
history of the interaction of those characters.

How do you think about that?

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I agree with you that it is not rape, and when we are talking about "sexual assault" there is a line, but it's blurry as hell. I'm not sure what gender you are, but after the recent metoo hashtag, we all need to look at men's actions, something that might seem innocuous to men, like Louis's actions in this episode and realize that women find it horrifying behaviour. The specific scen (i think we are both talking about the same one, but I haven't seen it since it aired, so I may not remember it all) Pamela is literally runing away saying no multiple times while Louis, who is twice her size if not more is forcing himself on her. Yes, it does stop and Pamela leavs the apartment. But to me it is a terrifying scene. You are right, it is a super complex scene, and after I watched it I literally thought to myself "Oh, cool. Louis is going to start a dialogue about how common this kind of behavior is and how we, as a society should address it". But that isn't what happened.

The jerking off line, the pushing Pamela, but not to the point of rape, and then to have Louis (the real Louis) say that it was no big deal and what happened in the episode was normal just felt off to me. It turned him into someone I could enjoy watching into a real human. The kind of real human that I've had to deal with before. I really hope that with him this is an addiction problem and not how he just likes to passive-aggresively show his power over women. I really do. But women have come out and said he was doing this for so many years and he has always denied it. I just don't know.

In retrospect, maybe that episode was a kind of confession from Louis, or maybe he was testing the waters to see people's reactions. Either way, this is the best example out of the multitude so far that is going to show us that it's not just the hugely powerful guys we don't give a crap doing this. It's our buddies, and how do we deal with that?

[–] brux (14724) 7 years ago

>> we all need to look at men's actions, something that might seem innocuous to men, like Louis's actions in this episode and realize that women find it horrifying behavior.

One thing I find interesting, not in a good way, is that these scenarios are all revealed in media almost exclusively by men, and in many cases by the very men who have been doing these things. The image of women is molded by men in the media. (i am male, by the way)

I think that is the way life has been for most human beings for as long as their have been human beings. Now, suddenly in modern times we ask the question, what are women, what do they want, what are their rights, and how do men and women get long within the framework of how any people get along.

I found that scene of Louie hard to watch, but I thought it was a good one, and honest one. Who can say what is going on with another person, and what Louie thought he was doing with these scenes. In general Louie's work seems to me to be progressive and pro-women. Watching that again made me confused.

I think men behave this way with women and now women are calling it rape, or inappropriate ... but from time immemorial I think boys are the aggressors in sex usually, at least in our culture, usually trying to push women further than they want to do, or trying to convince women to do certain things, often to prove their love.

I think of that old line "men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get love".

I think the unspoken, unconscious thing here might be that men as a gender fear that they will lose women as being the sexual beings that they have been in the past and in history. Maybe that is where we are evolving to, and to where gender doesn't even matter with the acceptance of homosexuality.

Men assume women like being women, but in many ways women are socialized and sexualized to exist for men ... and maybe that is not so natural as we think.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Uh oh, here is where I'm going to have to start strongly disagreeing with you

>> Now, suddenly in modern times we ask the question, what are women, what do they want, what are their rights, and how do men and women get long within the framework of how any people get along.

>> Men assume women like being women, but in many ways women are socialized and sexualized to exist for men ... and maybe that is not so natural as we think.

Hate to break it to you, but women have always been human beings. The way people are treated does not define them. If these statements honestly reflect the way you think, this conversation is over. I'm honestly dumbfounded. "Yeah, boy, times sure have changed since the beginning of Time When women would just shut their mouths, exist for us, and let us push them around!" Unless you're trolling me. Yikes.

[–] GotWood84 (384) 6 years ago

You're a fagg0t dude. I guarantee women don't respect you. Women want real men. Men who take what they want. They don't want a little b!tch.

[–] filmtenk (765) 7 years ago

Used to love CK’s standup considered him in the top 3 best comedians. Gota let him go after this most recent incident. Schwarzenegger’s scandal was consensual I believe. It’s always sad when married people cheat, but it’s so common. I wouldn’t put Arnold’s transgressions in the same realm as CK’s.

[–] brux (14724) 7 years ago

The thing is ... the one thing I notice while watching Louis CK is
how intelligent he is about how to manipulate people. That is one
of the kernels of humor, how to lead people in one direction and
then blindside them with something unexpected.

So, I think about this situation with him, and how he admitted to
what he did ... and then look at the huge response and basically
punishment he got ... and I am not sure the punishment fits the
crime. I don't want to come down on either way ... because my
very small and feeble brain cannot process all these variables
myself, nor do I, or we, really know the truth of what happened
and how.

MM above seems to have conflated Louie's character in his series
and what happens with his own personally life. I am not sure that
is right or wrong, I do it myself occasionally so people are entitled
to their own feelings and opinions. It is when these forces get
together and then act in some way. Louis has lost a lot it seems like,
but them he has a lot. He really has a lot of money and fame, so
how does on balance that to see if it is just or not? Beats me.

It was nice that Louis did not lie or do what Spacey did, he put out
a very clear statement on this ... but then again, could he for example
have written a statement to Mike Tyson to make people almost feel
sorry for him after he beat his wife ... ( not being serious ) ... what I
am getting at is REPRESENTATION ... why people have lawyers in
court, so someone else can speak for them.

This is complicated. And what should I or any other member of the
public have to say about this? One has to wonder what the women who
accused Louie of this think about the fairness or appropriateness of
the reaction?

Could they then come out and say in public ... yes it was traumatic,
but Louis should not be completely destroyed. Spacey on the other
hand ... I don't know.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

brux first, thanks for discussing this so respectfully (I'm so glad we're on MC and not IMDB anymore!lol)

>>MM above seems to have conflated Louie's character in his series
and what happens with his own personally life.

Isn't the whole premise of Louis that this is not a character, but that he is playing himself? Obviously it isn't an autobiography, but it's pretty freakin close

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Thank you for this. Infidelity and what Ck's done are not even remotely in the same ballpark. They aren't even on the same continent.