Ridiculous
Ok we can all agree he is a scumbag. But 23 years?! Are you kidding me? Based solely on two unproven accusations. "He forced oral sex on me" "No, I didn't" Whatever, gulty! 23 years. Bye, bye!
shareI hate him and I hate his type.
However, I kinda don't believe he was raping people. I believe it was mutual but not welcomed.
I don't know what you call that.
I believe if you are really raped, you are going to the cops. These women could have also sued the shit out of him after, but they didn't.
Coercion? Sleep with me and I'll help your career, refuse and I'll do what I can to ruin you.
shareYou do not have to do that for a living.
If someone told me I had to fuck them for my job, I would never. I wouldn't if they were beautiful or ugly.
So what your point?
It's completely unprofessional and disgusting to treat anyone that way. These women shouldn't have been put in a position where they had to do what this guy wanted or risk damaging their chosen career.
The point is, that is not rape.
You don't put a person in jail for 23 years for being "gross" as that is unjust.
Better to let a guilty person go free than to jail an innocent man.
If there is no hard evidence, we don't know what happened.
In those situations, it wasn't not rape, ok.
I'd say it was a lot worse than "gross" though, and certainly illegal.
It's not illegal.
I know a girl who likes to be choked during sex. She is also the type to call the cops if you didn't bring her the right coffee. She used to go with her boyfriend, find girls, drug them up, and then they would both rape them to "prove" to the girls they like homosexuality.
That is because this girl got involved in forced homosexuality as a child. It is her thing, with drugs, also injected as a kid, sex, etc that other people should LIKE what happened to her. She is the kind of person that if you were around her, she would try to fuck you or get you high, then dump and make fun of you.
She is very pretty and the wittiest woman I have ever met in my life.
You may not know how freaky and vicious some men and women are.
Sean Connery once said something like, at the right time, it is okay to hit a woman. I knew exactly what he meant. When people heard that, they were thinking of their mom or their nice college girl girlfriend. Connery was probably exposed to some very sociopathic golddigger women and evil people like I described above. People who wanted to fuck and fuck up Sean Connery.
Imagine what this Weinstein dude had in front of him. Connery was a powerless punk compared.
All that and I HATE Weinstein and his entire type. But, I'm keeping it real. He probably lived in a WAY different world. I know small time weirdos and sociopaths, but imagine who he knows. Likely too much for a guy like him.
Well, we're talking about different things.
It absolutely is illegal and unethical to bring sex into a job offer like he was doing with these actresses, and Harvey was known not just to offer acting opportunities to women who slept with him but to use his influence to try to punish the women who refused him. That kind of thing was what my first post was about.
It's not a criminal offense.
It is not a crime at all if the other person doesn't say no.
The law is that I can ask someone out once. If they say no then I must stop.
If I say, hey can I drop your ass at your house and then we can see what happens with the job and you say, sure thing, come on up stairs, and then sexual things happen, that is unethical, it's not illegal.
Yeah, what I described is illegal. Sexual things don't just "happen". Weinstein came on to those women, who were up for jobs with him. One hundred percent illegal and a form of harassment, even if he only says "we'll see what happens" with the job and doesn't make guarantees. It's a type of harassment to attempt to get sex out of a woman in that position.
Not to mention Weinstein sabotaged women who refused him like Mira Sorvino.
It is NOT harassment if the person agrees.
I have sat through 30 years of training on the topic. You are allowed to ask once.
From what I've read, these situations happened in hotels, people's apartments, etc. They didn't happen in his office where suddenly he attacks.
Why are you inviting Harvey to your room?
You get there and oh, Harvey enjoys pushing your face into the bed and ripping your clothes off. Well, maybe you should have brought that up before the door closed.
If that's how it went down then they agreed to something and then "didn't like it" and that's the way it goes. You don't invite people to your room to play cards or watch TV unless you really like and trust them. Plus, the casting couch idea is literally something everyone has heard of, so if Harvey is coming to your room, you know what's up.
LOL. Then your training was wrong. What country are you from that an EMPLOYER is allowed to ask someone he's talking to about a job is allowed to ask once for sex?
"You get there and oh, Harvey enjoys pushing your face into the bed and ripping your clothes off. Well, maybe you should have brought that up before the door closed."
Jesus Christ, man!
OK, now I have to conclude you're a troll or um, something else. Going up to a guys room to talk about a job is not consent to sex. Weinstein in that kind of situation does not have the right to do what he pleases with a woman. That's just straight up rape.
You are living in a dreamworld.
I live in the US and you can make one proposal and that is the law. It doesn't say what kind.
And, every knows that you get to know someone before you have them at your hotel room, lol. There is no law saying how a consensual sex act is supposed to go.
If you get that started, there's no regulating it.
You need to step out of the house more.
LOL. You guys.
I'm in a dreamworld? Back at you. This last reply is just nonsensical. Weinstein was an employer talking to women about hiring them for acting jobs. There ARE laws about those kinds of situations. And they say nothing about being allowed to ask someone your talking to about a job for sex once.
As I have noted, if you ask a person out, and they say yes, you are in different territory.
What you are talking about is called Quid Pro Quo. That's where you directly say, if you do this, I will do that, which is what it means in Latin.
If someone says that, you should leave and report them. But, only a fool is going to say that. If you allow Quid Pro Quo, you are at fault too since you got your job illegally.
A smart person is going to say, "Hey we got this part. You wanna talk about it at you hotel, later?" and if you say, "Sure Harvey, come to my room so we can talk in private" Harvey knows what you mean.
The cases I read, he was always going to their room. I doubt they were having a robotic Quid Pro Quo interchange, lol.
Wrong again.
It doesn't have to be a situation where you overtly state, if you have sex with me, I will then give you this job. And Weinstein asking a woman up to his or her room when he's talking to her about a job doesn't become a normal dating situation.
That is not true.
There are probably millions of women who married their post and work for a company.
Read about it.
You can't retroactively claim harassment if you came on to someone and they responded and/or they had sex with you. That would allow entrapment.
Wow, this exchange has been a real eye opener to what some people think, or what they say is somehow legal where they are from....unless I completely misread or somehow do not understand the information provided. It has me feeling so strongly that I have to comment.
In a normal situation, not once would I think it was ‘legal’ but also not illegal for an employer to ask me out once either if I already worked for them or if I was in interview. If they kept doing it, when there was no interest from me, I would find it weird and it may end up being sexual harassment. I would find it unprofessional and completely unethical especially in the later case. It would be worse if they straight up just asked for sex...which would set flags up for me and would definitely be sexual harassment if it kept happening and there was no call for it.
In the ‘meeting in hotel room’ situation, I would not expect that to automatically mean we were to have sex, unless the guy had already been hinting at such things, or his behaviour towards me had been sexual; if this was not something I wanted or I felt uncomfortable, like it was more than just consensual banter, and I was afraid that he would attack me or try and rape me, I would never allow him in my hotel room or go to his, under any pretence, alone. You would get that feeling about someone hopefully; like they were not going to stop until they got their way. Any meetings would have been done in the hotel lounge or bar or wherever.
None of us knows what really happened between him and the women he attacked, or the women that claimed he attacked them.
Starting to suspect its a troll.
shareAs I have noted, I have had decades of training on this stuff and could probably teach a class on it.
There's a lot of gray area about "jokes" topics that may offend people, etc. When I first started my career, the rule was that if you told a joke, made a comment, etc that offended ANYONE you were in trouble. You could tell a joke about shoes, and someone could complain that shoes are scared to them or some crap, and it's investigation time. That doesn't mean anything would happen though. That got changed to the person must give a warning if you tell a joke.
Also, most people have ZERO personal lives in the US, due to working all the time. So, you are allowed to make innuendo and ask people out. But, they must tell you to stop, and in some places document it, before you are expected to stop.
That's because that's how many normal people signal the opposite sex they are interested. They make sexual innuendo. People who live in a fantasy world may not think that's right, but it's how the world works.
Personally, I'm like Spock at work and no one ever knows if I'm gay, straight, a robot, etc. I'm a pleasant professional because I am terrified of women.
I had a supervisor show me her vagina and a nurse ask me to feel her breasts, in front of a large number of people, and she would comment on the size of my bulge all the time. I reported both of these women. The supervisor issue was blown off and I got in trouble for being angry at the nurse.
This shit is dangerous and many women are intense liars.
Anyway, it all taught me it's hard to prove and I have known MANY women that get ahead through sex. You can observe this, but if it's never "said" it's hard to prove a deal was made.
The Adlerian....
I like the way you refer to yourself as Spock at work, that made me giggle...shame you are terrified of women though. At least you are a pleasant professional, as you say; a good worker.
But your response/information provided - especially your reference to the two instances of explicit sexual behaviour towards you - makes me agog. Seriously, where and how the heck did these things occur? They seem totally bizarre and unbelievable....and completely not normal behaviour in the work place. That is disciplinary sexual harassment right there!
You say certain sexual behaviour in the workplace (innuendo) in the US is normal (and still that it seems a legitimate ethically legal and documentable thing to ask colleagues out?) because people are basically boring! What?! Having a bit of mutually acceptable harmless banter which may include some light sexual innuendo is one thing - it’s not ok if harassing or goes too far - but this is NOT a given precursor to any sexual encounter or makes unwanted sexual attention or rape ok.
The cases I read, he had them go to his room for a “meeting.” A meeting that was initially scheduled somewhere else, e.g. office or public place, then moved to hotel restaurant or bar, then when the woman arrives she’s told he’s upstairs in his room.
Plus, there’s an audio recording of weinstein admitting it.
At best you're talking solicited prostitution, which the woman are guilty of also if they accepted.
shareLOL. You guys.
I'm pretty sure no real lawyer would consider it a prostitution situation if woman who's talking to an employer for a legitimate job is hit on by the guy who is hiring. Good grief.
If she accepts the offer of work for sex...yes they would.
shareThanks, internet lawyer.
It's sexual harassment whether the woman accepts the offer or not, according to the actual law and stories by real lawyers that I've read. I think I'll go with that.
"Thanks, internet lawyer."
But somehow you're not?!😂
hyp·o·crite:
/ˈhipəˌkrit/
noun,
a person who indulges in hypocrisy.
The thing is, someone doesn't need a law degree to know what you are claiming is absurd. You'd have to know pretty much nothing about these cases to believe what you wrote. I'm calling you an internet lawyer because you're confidently claiming to know something but what you wrote is so OBVIOUSLY wrong.
I mean, this is really basic stuff.
The difference between you and I is I'm getting my information from the actual law and lawyers who handle these situations.
Which you CLEARLY are not if you think when a woman up for a legit job who's being asked for sex by the employer its covered under prostitution laws, not sexual harassment.
Accept that's not what I said. But hey, if you need to be right so bad that you'll lie about what my comment was, go right ahead.
"If she accepts the offer of work for sex...yes they would"