MovieChat Forums > Jane Fonda Discussion > People calling her Hanoi Jane might be s...

People calling her Hanoi Jane might be suffering from cognitive decline.

posted 5 years ago by [deleted]
54 replies | jump to latest

I've been fascinated by psychology my entire life, so every time I see something weird involving the mind, I can't help thinking about it. This whole "Hanoi Jane" thing has me wondering if this isn't another manifestation of a psychological issue.

I have super elderly relatives, and one of the symptoms of cognitive decline it is obsessively focusing on decades-old events as if they happened yesterday or are still somehow relevant. And no--it's not what you think. It's not that the event was so big that they're emotionally unable to let go. It's just they lose a sense of time. In their minds, there's no such thing as today, tomorrow or yesterday. If they remember something upsetting that happened in 1947 or 1963 or 1979 something, then it's as if it happened this week.

This whole "Hanoi Jane" thing has me wondering if this isn't a symptom of that. Jane Fonda is now a rapidly aging old woman in her 80s and may be dead in a few years. The cultural climate in which she did what she did almost 50 years ago is dead and buried. There is no Vietnam war, no anti-war protests, none of that. We're even friends/allies of Vietnam, after all the bloodshed of the war--that's how much times have changed. The times and circumstances leading to Jane Fonda doing what she did in her 30s are so different from today that they may as well have happened 100 years ago.

Once upon a time, when I'd see people ranting about "Hanoi Jane," I'd roll my eyes and think, "Get over it." I'd think that it was a case of not being able to emotionally let go (as if they were just holding a petty grudge.) But now thinking about it, maybe it's not that they won't get over it. Maybe they just can't get over it, because there's a cognitive issue that prevents them from not realizing that 1972 is not "yesterday." It was decades ago.

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

IM 38.JANE FONDA WAS AND IS A BITCH...HER VIETNAM GARBAGE WAS UNFORGIVABLE AND UNFORGETTABLE...WE MAY BE ALLIES TO VIETNAM THESE DAYS..NOT THE VIET CONG THOUGH....#HANOIJANECANGOTOHELL

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

She was addicted to amphetamines and barely eating during her protest days. She was not thinking clearly. Not an excuse but a factor.

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

DOESNT HELP THAT BOTH MY GRANDFATHERS SERVED AND ONE WAS A POW..NOT TO MENTION HER FATHER,HENRY FONDA IS ONE OF MY TOP THREE ALL TIME DUDES ALONG WITH NEWMAN AND MCQUEEN...JANE AND PETER WERE BOTH ASSHAT'S FOR THE BETTER PART OF THEIR LIVES IN SOME SHITTY PLAY TO GET BACK AT THEIR DAD FOR HIS HAVING BEING MARRIED SO MANY TIMES AND THEIR MOTHER COMMITING SUICIDE(NOT HENRY'SFAULT)...AS A FAN IVE READ BIOGRAPHIES ON ALL THREE...I HAVE COME TO FORGIVE PETER FOR HIS SHENANIGANS...JANE WILL FOREVER BE ON MY SHIT LIST THOUGH(IM SURE IT REALLY IRKS HER).

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

We are entitled to our feelings and I understand yours.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Grow up and stop using all caps. It makes you seem insane.

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

LMAO...IWANTYOUSOON TOO.

[–] Bloodworth79 (5687) 5 years ago

I never understood the hatred for caps....you people are a weird breed...
You must squirm if you see something spelled wrong.
Funny and strange

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

"everybody in the world except Kowalski" does not add up to "a weird breed" !

[–] twinA (4921) 5 years ago

I believe that bad choices should not be held against the people committing them permanently, as if their questionable actions were done yesterday, as you say.

People tend to change in their lives with time and therefore, not the same people they were before. Bad actions should only be held against people if they are still continuing such negative and destructive behavior.

There's an old saying, "The punishment should fit the crime." I think what she did was despicable, but ultimately, forgivable.

As for Vietnam in particular, and saying this as an American who lost a relative in the Vietnam War in 1968, I see our current relationship with the Vietnamese government as a step in the right direction for mending ties, building bridges, and not putting our lost veterans' lives in vain. While we should not forget the past in moving on; may we learn so as to not repeat the past.

~~/o/

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

There's an old saying, "The punishment should fit the crime." I think what she did was despicable, but ultimately, forgivable.

What you said reminds me of something I've been seeing with increasing frequency these days--to retaliate completely out of scale to the offense committed. You can see this behavior at all levels of society, from the common street thug who shoots somebody in the face for giving the side eye to people deciding to destroy a person's business over nothing (remember when a pizza owner had his store trashed on Yelp for taking a photo op with Obama?). I never understood this kind of vindictiveness and I never will. If someone pokes you in the arm, it's not "justice" to punch them in the face or try to cost them their job/career or call in a fake complaint to CPS or--in the case of Jane Fonda--hound them into old age. When I see that type of "justice," I just see imbalance.

[–] twinA (4921) 5 years ago

It's the vicious cycle of people being treated cruelly, then cruelly treating others in turn. What I mean to say is, the victims often become the perpetrators. It is what they have been taught and come to know. Sometimes, doing bad things even when they know better, figuring, why care?

~~/o/

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

JANE NEVER PAID ANY PRICE FOR HER SHIT...SHE CONTINUED TO WORK AND LIVE WELL.SHE IS AN OLD WOMAN AND CONSIDERED AN ICON NOW...

[–] sslssg (34223) 5 years ago

What did she do that was so bad??

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

DURING OUR WAR WITH VIETNAM...SHE MADE A TON OF ANTI AMERICAN COMMENTS...CHILLED OUT WITH THE VIETCONG,WHILE TRYING TO TELL THEIR STORY AND POSED FOR PHOTOGRAPHS ON THE SAME ANTI TANK GUN THAT WAS USED TO BLOW THE HOLY HELL OUT OF OUR TROOPS...CANT IMAGINE WHAT WE WOULD THINK OF KATHERINE HEPBURN POSING WITH HITLER IN HIS BUNKER AND CALLING US OUT FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING HIS CAUSE.

[–] sslssg (34223) 5 years ago

How is that any different than Trump defending Russia, or even North Korea. Or Dennis Rodman hanging out with Kim Jong-un? Granted the US is not currently on the ground fighting with those countries, but they certainly aren't allies to the US. There were a lot of Americans who went to Vietnam to see what was really going on, and you don't hear them being talked about like that anymore.

I'm not defending what she did, but she has said over and over again that she regrets that picture. But she did get to meet soldiers from the other side and that they were just boys like the American soldiers and that they shouldn't be killing each other, she was caught up in a moment and a picture was taken.

So even with all the apologies over the years, you still hold a moment against her?

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

IVE READ HER,HER FATHERS AND HER BROTHERS BIOGRAPHIES...SHE IS HUMAN TRASH.

[–] sslssg (34223) 5 years ago

Agree to disagree 😊

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

IM FINE WITH THAT...ANYONE WHO READS HER WHOLE STORY WOULD FEEL LESS THAN LOVNG TOWARD HER THOUGH.

[–] kwestmo (4385) 5 years ago

Everything comes back to Trump with you. You are exactly what the OP is writing about.

[–] sslssg (34223) 5 years ago

Huh? I only used Trump as he is a current figure who has said nice things about dictators in other countries and has been essentially forgiven. Please find me a current individual that gets as much media attention at this time as Trump and I would gladly talk about them. Also please show me where I am always talking about Trump.

I also said that I also don't see people hating on Dennis Rodman in the same way, but feel free to ignore that.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Isnt it like universally agreed now that the US war in Vietnam was completely unjustified, not to mention unwinnable?
The world was not going to be overrun with "Commies"

So in that sense wasnt she , and the many thousands of others protesting the war , in the right?

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

MY FATHER PROTESTED THE WAR..HE IS STILL A LONG HAIRED HIPPIE...SHE WENT 12 STEPS BEYOND.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

"Rapidly aging"?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Eh, let me put in perspective, having two super old people in my family.

No matter how healthy you are as you enter your golden years, something happens once you make it past 80. It's like physical/mental aging accelerates for some people, where you suddenly age 50 years in less than a decade. One year you're bouncing, hopping skipping along as if you were still 40, 50 years old, and a few years later you're Methuselah (hunched over, mental confusion, etc.).

Jane Fonda might make it to her 90s like Betty White, happy, healthy and well kept. but it seems that for most people, once they hit their mid-80s, it's all downhill from there.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

I understand what you mean now. It reminds me of the time I was at a restaurant and was looking at the menu. Looking, not reading, lol. Overnight it seems my eyes got worse and I needed reading glasses.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat when it comes to my eyesight. Things started going south once I hit 45, LOL. They weren't kidding back in the day when they talked about being "over the hill" at 40. So true.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

I'm 47. I'm still strong and agile. I was always athletic. But my eyes are suffering. I don't like driving at night anymore. Isn't that sad?!?

[–] R_Kane (15828) 5 years ago

Then I may have good news for the 2 of you. I’ve needed glasses since the age of 8. Five years ago I had surgery on both my eyes. I was scared to death the first time, and I had very extensive prior experience with surgery. I was so delighted with the result that I literally saw the day after the surgery that I LOOKED FORWARD to the second one. And didn’t need glasses after that. There is hope, my friends.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

Thanks. I have astigmatism and a muscle imbalance in one eye that I had surgery to correct but when I am tired my eye still wanders.

I will look into surgery sooner or later.

And yes, hope is the most powerful force along with the will to live and the two are intertwined.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I don't have astigmatism, but I do have the muscle imbalance problem. I was offered surgery, but I was terrified of the potential risks and declined it.

Have you tried doing those "3D Amblyopia" games for the muscle issues? Supposedly, they help strengthen the muscles in the wandering eye. I did them for awhile, and then life being what it is, I got lazy and stopped doing them, LOL.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

I'm sure the exercises help, but like you, I didn't keep them up.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

If I'm not tired and/or drinking my eye doesn't wander.

[–] R_Kane (15828) 5 years ago

Yeah, it’s much like the Remember the POWs black flags that I still see flying. They’re dead. They’re not coming back. Yes, it’s a shame, but it’s time to stop wallowing and move on.

[–] strntz (12255) 5 years ago

The sad thing is that the possibility exists that there could be POWs still alive in Vietnam.

[–] twinA (4921) 5 years ago

A friend of my family, a Vietnam War vet, was held as a prisoner in Vietnam for a time. He rarely talks about his experiences pertaining to the conflict, physically shaking and twitching whenever he describes the events that happened to him.

He recalled how he was physically tortured, interrogated, and beaten for info, which he refused; starved and hung upside down. He was one of the fortunate ones who managed to make it back to the United States without being bodily dismembered, the mental scars remaining. It would be many years before he came home after the war, arriving sometime in the 1980s, roughly a little over a decade after the end of formal hostilities.

He had remarked some of the horrors he had seen, cruelty unfit for anyone, let alone a POW; soldiers being harshly treated, some - their faces gnawed off by insects while awake, unable to do anything about it as they were tied up against their will.

He had somehow happened to escape his captors, foraging on his own in a land unknown to him, keeping a low profile trying to get back to American authorities and avoiding any unpleasant contact with those who might do him harm. Despite his incredible benefits from the Veterans Association, his body is in a tremendous amount of pain. He currently works as a math professor at one of the universities in California, living in San Diego.

~~/o/

[–] marktayloruk (2502) 3 years ago

Why did he take that long to come home?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

There are still flags flying? That is so strange. What's the point?

[–] strntz (12255) 5 years ago

I'm technically a Vietnam vet (never overseas), but I know few families that lost family members and were likely POWs
They fly the flags because they want to remember their family members who never came home, and might still be alive there.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I just figured that they could be honored via Veteran's or Memorial Day, which is what these holidays are for.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

My post office flies them as well as police stations.

The point is the same as remembering 9/11, WWI, WWII, etc.

Did you seriously ask what the point was?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Yes, I did ask that. We have two holidays that were set aside for this very reason--Memorial Day and Veterans Day. Being a New Yorker, I could fly a "Never Forget" flag all day on my lawn, but what is the point when we commemorate 9/11 every year and have museums and monuments?

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

I see what you mean.

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

I'm from the south, so the "Never Forget" flags are confederate flags, lol.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

and what are they never forgetting ? slavery?

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

Never forgetting the confederacy and slavery as well I suppose. In many instances its a racist dog whistle.

[–] kenburke (2372) 5 years ago

People who call her "Hanoi Jane" are not only stuck in the past but have their heads shoved up their, ah, you get the drift.

[–] Kowalski (75537) 5 years ago

LMAO

[–] BuckSwope (3511) 5 years ago

'Walski I want pics of that act.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I personally don't get it, which is why I'm wondering what's going on. I can understand someone holding a grudge over the years to where every time they saw her they grumbled, "Eh, dumb lefty broad" or something but still fuming "Hanoi Jane" and "she's a traitor!!!!!" and "she hates our troops!!!" as if it just happened?...I think there's something else going on.

[–] liscarkat (18410) 4 years ago

What she did was wrong. The fact that it was a long time ago and the Vietnam War is over does not make it any less wrong. If you can't comprehend that, I think you are suffering from cognitive decline.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 4 years ago

Yeah, perhaps the Jews should let go of all that Holocaust shit too. I mean it was 70 years ago and we're friends with Germany now aren't we?
It's not a cognitive issue, it's that some people won't forget when they think someone has wronged them, their country or their people.

[–] degray9 (1126) 3 years ago

So when is USA going to apologize for attacking and causing genocide in Vietnam? Never I guess…

[–] johnmiller (3889) 4 years ago

The left will try to apologize for anything, just like the right.