"It's unfathomable that any semi-intelligent American adult could watch this stuff and actually believe it's legitimate competition."
Who are you talking about? If there are any people like that, there aren't enough of them to be significant:
In 1989, Vince McMahon, the owner of the World Wrestling Federation (WWF), testified that wrestling was entertainment, not a legitimate athletic contest. This was done to avoid regulations that applied to other sports.
Even before that, it was mostly just kids who believed it was a real competition, and even among the kids, many of them believed it was fake. I started watching WWF wrestling in about 1987 when I was 12, and it was obvious to me that the outcomes of the matches were predetermined. It was also obvious to me that some of the things weren't fake; for example, you can't fake a body slam. The fake part of that is the reaction to it, making it seem far more devastating than it really is.
My favorite part was Jesse Ventura's color commentary, which was hilarious.
I lost interest after WrestleMania VI (1990) and haven't had any interest in pro wrestling since then. From time to time over the years I've watched the first six WrestleManias again for the sake of nostalgia though, and to hear Jesse Ventura again.
In any case, the people who like pro wrestling aren't under the impression that it's real.
"For example, a bunch of dumb hicks believe that wrestler "Bret 'The Hitman' Hart" died after falling from the rafters of an arena some 30 years ago."
That's another thing that people who only exist in your imagination believe. Real-world people believe that
Owen Hart died that way, because that's what actually happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Hart#Death
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BlackMass (1203)
19 days ago
So all of the toothless, Bud-drinking trailer folks who watch wrestling are aware of McMahon's 1989 statement? I think not.
Not sure what linking to the Hart dude's Wikipedia article proves. The page is either written in-universe, or by someone who thinks his wins, losses, championships and storylines are real: "He pinned Rocky Maivia to win his first WWF Intercontinental Championship", "he and the British Bulldog lost the WWF Tag Team Championship to Stone Cold Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels", "he later won the European title from Triple H".
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MaximRecoil (4845)
19 days ago
"So all of the toothless, Bud-drinking trailer folks who watch wrestling are aware of McMahon's 1989 statement?"
It's common knowledge. Not everyone knows the specifics of it (but it's easy to look up these days, just as I did), but they know that it has been officially admitted that pro wrestling is fake, ages ago.
"I think not."
You think wrong. Do you really think you'll get any arguments from anyone if you were to go on a pro wrestling forum and tell them it's fake? If so, you're suffering from a delusion. The most likely response will be something like, "Thank you, Captain Obvious." Why do you think they talk about "kayfabe"?
noun. kay·fabe ˈkā-ˌfāb. 1. : the tacit agreement between professional wrestlers and their fans to pretend that overtly staged wrestling events, stories, characters, etc., are genuine.
"Not sure what linking to the Hart dude's Wikipedia article proves. The page is either written in-universe, or by someone who thinks his wins, losses, championships and storylines are real: "He pinned Rocky Maivia to win his first WWF Intercontinental Championship", "he and the British Bulldog lost the WWF Tag Team Championship to Stone Cold Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels", "he later won the European title from Triple H"."
Are you daft? First, your tacit concession that you unwittingly confused Bret Hart with his brother Owen is noted. Second, the section of the article I linked to is about his real death, obviously. It even shows a picture of his grave stone:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/OwenHartGrave.jpg
And here's a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) article about his death:
https://www.cbc.ca/archives/the-loss-of-owen-hart-and-the-family-friends-and-fans-who-loved-him-1.5146777
And here's an
MSN.com article about it -
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrities/wwe-legend-explains-what-happened-after-owen-hart-s-death-they-wheeled-him-past-me/ar-BB1rmkKp?
And this is from a Sports Illustrated article:
Owen Hart died on May 23, 1999, during the “Over The Edge” pay per view, after a quick release mechanism attached to his harness triggered and released him, causing him to fall 78 feet into the ring. EMTs and emergency medical personnel removed Hart from the ring after attempting lifesaving procedures, and Hart died hours later at Truman Medical Center in Kansas City, MO. Vince McMahon made the decision to continue the live event, a decision that remains controversial amongst wrestling fans and discussed in the documentary.
https://www.si.com/fannation/wrestling/wwe/the-blue-meanie-amends-mr-mcmahon-misconception-about-over-the-edge-1999
You're in no position to talk about anyone else's intelligence, since you're clearly not the fastest car on the lot yourself.
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BlackMass (1203)
19 days ago
Since Zarkoff's post already counters yours quite beautifully, I'll just point to that. I'm not interested in engaging with someone who resorts to personal insults.
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MaximRecoil (4845)
19 days ago
"Since Zarkoff's post already counters yours quite beautifully"
He didn't counter anything. You think that current pro wrestling fans think that pro wrestling is real. This is what Zarkoff said about that:
"The wrestlers don't even claim it's real anymore."
And he also said:
"Yeah, pretty much no one believes it now. The wrestlers do interviews where they talk openly it. They are all over You Tube."
In other words, he doesn't suffer from your delusion.
"I'm not interested in engaging with someone who resorts to personal insults."
Your laughable attempt to redefine the word "resorts" is dismissed.
Still think that Owen (or "Bret," as you, and only you, call him) Hart didn't really die in 1999?
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Zarkoff (2394)
19 days ago
The wrestlers don't even claim it's real anymore.
However, there was a time when they did, pretty aggressively. There definitely were a lot of fans, including many adults, who thought it was a real competition back in the day. You can probably find interviews with some of them and they seem to be taking it pretty seriously.
You can also find a video of the comedian Richard Belzer being choked out by Hulk Hogan after Belzer kind of mockingly asked him questions about it being fake (HH was later sued because Belzer got a concussion and his head was split open). Hogan was supposed to be demonstrating a move, but decided to show Belzer the real thing and then let him drop to the floor. Guess he didn't like RB's attitude. Another wrestler smacked a reporter who was asking him about that, too. John Stossel actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeJepvj5tn4
One of my Dad's friends was a big fan, actually, and he did believe it was real, as absurd as that sounds. Can you imagine someone coming onto the field during a football game and distracting a referee so one of the players could cheat, like the heals do in pro wrestling matches? I think his desire to believe it overrode his common sense, or maybe he just didn't have any.
I remember my Dad explaining why it was obviously fake to me when I was probably around eight, and I understood it back then.
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MaximRecoil (4845)
19 days ago
I saw the John Stossel incident on 20/20 when it originally aired in 1984.
"There definitely were a lot of fans, including many adults, who thought it was a real competition back in the day."
Not many in terms of percentage of the adult population. In the 1980s when I was a kid, I knew zero adults who thought it was real, and not many kids either. It's kind of like the situation with Santa Claus. I remember there being a couple of kids in my 2nd-grade class who believed in Santa Claus, but that certainly wasn't the prevailing belief among 7- and 8-year-olds.
In any case, the OP's idea that current pro wrestling fans think pro wrestling is real is utterly absurd. Ironically, it denotes a level of ignorance on par with the belief that pro wrestling is real. And his babbling about Bret Hart (who he confused with Owen Hart) was beyond absurd, especially when he doubled-down on it after being linked to an article about Owen Hart's death. In all likelihood, he's the only person on Earth who thinks that Owen Hart isn't really dead, and that his death was actually a staged pro wrestling story line.
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Zarkoff (2394)
19 days ago
Yeah, pretty much no one believes it now. The wrestlers do interviews where they talk openly it. They are all over You Tube.
I think quite a few of the adults who were wrestling fans believed it was real. At least, the wrestling operations must have thought so since they tried pretty hard to keep up the pretense.
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MaximRecoil (4845)
19 days ago
"I think quite a few of the adults who were wrestling fans believed it was real."
I don't, not in terms of percentage anyway. When I started watching pro wrestling in 1987 at the age of 12, it was obvious to me that it was staged. Hulk Hogan's matches for example, were the exact same routine every time. He would start out dominating the match, then the "jobber" of the week would get the upper hand by using some "dirty" tactic, and after a few minutes of that, Hogan would magically become "immune" to attacks as he "hulked up," then he would fling him against the ropes, boot to the face on the rebound, "atomic leg drop," and a guaranteed 3-count.
And going beyond the extreme predictability which indicates fakery to anyone with at least average intelligence, many of the "moves" themselves were blatantly absurd. For example, being flung against the ropes doesn't force you to go running back to your opponent into their attack as if you're a character in a cartoon. The ropes don't have anywhere near enough spring force to do that, and even if they did, the ropes would knock people down if they were that powerful. In real life that "tactic" wouldn't work even once, let alone ~every time. Also, that "atomic leg drop" very obviously hurt Hogan far more than it did his opponents. It has to be the lamest "finishing move" ever.
For that matter, the very concept of a "finishing move" of any kind which leads to victory ~every time also indicates fakery to anyone with at least average intelligence. There's no such thing in real fighting competitions.
There's way too much blatantly obvious cooperation going on between the "opponents" in a pro wrestling match for anyone with even a modicum of intelligence to think it's a real competition.
"At least, the wrestling operations must have thought so since they tried pretty hard to keep up the pretense."
They were mistaken, which they eventually realized. They didn't know what would happen if they let go of the pretense until they actually tried it, and as it turns out, nothing happened.
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Zarkoff (2394)
18 days ago
You don't have to explain to me how obvious it was that it was a staged. There's a reason I wrote that their desire to believe overrode their common sense. LOL.
I think it might've been 50-50 when it came to whether adults who followed it believed it was real, but that's just my impression from watching old clips and people I knew growing up. I'm not aware of any polls or studies of fans back then. I wonder if the wrestling operations talked to fans or did any surveys on that or just assumed people wanted to believe it was real.
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