MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > Censorship = Money? IMDB and Netflix

Censorship = Money? IMDB and Netflix

posted 8 years ago by ps48 (65)
16 replies | jump to latest

Hello, old imdb (infrequent) poster here.

When the imdb boards were removed, my first instinct was that it was about money. A movie potentially makes less money if people can search up the "official" (aka: imdb) message board for that movie, and read threads called "What a waste of time!!!" etc. I don't buy the happy, positive, very PR-oriented "we just care soo much about our users" excuse, which was that the IMDB boards, in their opinion:

"are no longer providing a positive, useful experience for the vast majority of our more than 250 million monthly users worldwide"

So they just censored everyone - but-it-was-totally out of the goodness of their hearts! Nah. Like I said, I don't buy it, and I believe it's all about money. I'm sure this is obvious by now (or is it? anyone here disagree and think it was for another reason?), but now, Netflix is doing something, which, in my opinion, is very similar.

Netflix is removing it's 5-star rating system and replacing it with a Like/Dislike system. Now, there are two points I want to bring up about this:

1.) At the very least, this is a decrease in fidelity/accuracy that users are allowed to express. We are no longer allowed to say "meh it's alright" (rate a 3), or say "really good, but not perfect" (rate a 4), etc. Now, we're limited to either "ABSOLUTELY HATE IT" or "ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT". This, by itself, is a little bit insulting, because the higher fidelity was indeed useful, and I'd like to think that we are MENTALLY CAPABLE of at least a bit more detailed analysis than choosing between HATE IT or LOVE IT. But my major concern is the next point.

(character limit hit, continued)

[–] ps48 (65) 8 years ago

(cont.)

2.) I feel as if this is going to phase out Netflix "user ratings" ALTOGETHER. I'm not saying it's impossible to come up with a "rating" for a movie based on its Likes and Dislikes! That is totally possible! Just take the Likes divided by the total votes. But, according to Netflix, this is not quite what they're going to be doing with the new system. Liking/Disliking is now no longer going to serve as a "user rating" system, at least, based on what they've said, that's what it sounds like. Instead, it's going to simply serve as a "Hey, you liked, these movies, so we think you'll like these other movies too!"

While a "recommendation" system like that is fine, I feel that they are using the introduction of the recommendation system to HIDE that they are essentially completely removing user ratings. What that means, is: No longer can a TERRIBLE show be spammed 1-star ratings and get the hate that it rightly deserves.

And it JUST SO HAPPENS that there are a few shows that recently got - and are still getting - HORRIBLE reviews because they rightly deserve them:

Amy Schumer's stand-up
Dear White People
Bill Nye Saves the World

Sure - call it a conspiracy theory, but for me, these coincidences are too hard to ignore. Arguably all three of these examples have a political motivation/agenda. So allowing the community to spam them with 1-star won't do, ay?

From a "Netflix spokesperson": "This feature is about helping members better personalize their unique experience, Not sharing an opinion on the quality of a story."

http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/16/netflix-star-ratings/

Same idea behind imdb's removal of the boards, yeah?

[–] Strannger (2007) 8 years ago

No, Colin needham even came out and told us it was trolls. It got bad the last two years. Look at old archieves and users will tell you. Here is one

https://moviechat.org/bd0000043/The-Sandbox/58aa87641f7fc81e821c08c3/YOU-CANT-BE-SERIOUS

If people don't want censorship prove you can handle it or your going off a gut feeling.

[–] catsidhe (1649) 8 years ago

I never used the general boards. They looked like cesspools of insanely boring nonsense. There was enough trolling on the individual boards though, but that was very navigable. Of course, to a casual onlooker who has no log-in and therefore had no befefit of the ignore filter, yeah. That must have looked abominable even on the individual boards. But they let the trolls infest and multiply, so soon it became a lost cause.

I would have tried to save it, of course. But then I value the discussions.

[–] ps48 (65) 8 years ago

Strannger

Forgive me but what are you showing me with the link? Are you referring to the 2nd post who claims that the imdb boards have been bad for years?

I personally never noticed, although I never used the general boards either. I only used the movie-specific boards whenever I had a question about a movie I'd just watched, or to confirm a suspicion, or to speculate what happens in the ending, etc. Other people would almost always have already posted the same thoughts.

I also don't know what you mean by your last line: "If people don't want censorship prove you can handle it or you're going off a gut feeling." Prove I can handle what? Censorship? Or trolls? Well, "trolls" don't bother me much, personally.

If someone is very angry, for example, at a movie that I personally think is intelligent - oh, let's say Blade Runner, which is one of my favorite movies. Let's say someone hated the ending, because (well, depending on which version you're watching) it doesn't explicitly show what happens after the elevator door closes. My mother, for example, would be someone who would say, "Well that's just stupid!" So, my mother is a troll? No. She just doesn't "get" what the movie was trying to do, and it's probably a waste of effort to try and explain and prove to her that it's an intelligent and effective ending, and why it all makes sense. This is how I view most "trolls". They're probably legitimately upset by something because they just aren't wired to enjoy a particular thing. OR, they are actually going online to intentionally cause disruption and turmoil for fun. I think it is USUALLY the case that "trolls" are the former, not the latter. In either case, simply not getting worked up by them is a fine solution, IMO. It's just a person typing stuff on a computer either way.

I a firm believer of you need to let the bad in with the good. Removing EVERYTHING just because some bad exists is not a good solution for me.

[–] catsidhe (1649) 8 years ago

I will agree that the "we care too much about our users" is a laughable utterance from imdb.

But I kind of like the ratings taken away from Netflix. I never trust ratings. Some arsehole down the road screaming about a shitty show only helps me if I know the taste of the screaming arsehole.

[–] Strannger (2007) 8 years ago

No really. Again they couldnt, the boards were flawed. They couldn't be. Users b got hurt. Ask any one and type it in. Imdb had a bad rep

[–] ps48 (65) 8 years ago

I want to clarify that, ideally, I totally agree that everybody should form their own opinion. I'm not one to say that everybody should just like what the majority likes, and everybody should hate what the majority hates. In fact, I like a lot of movies that people don't like, and I hate a lot of the popular movies (I don't like superhero movies, transformers, and all these recent movie "remakes", etc). However, allowing a community the freedom to accurately rate any consumer product is vital, and taking that away IS a form of censorship.

The thing is, negative reviews are helpful not only to other people, but also to the creators. I think that most normal people understand that "you can't please everyone" so just because one user wrote a bad review on the imdb boards, doesn't mean that everyone is going to take that one review from a stranger as gospel and avoid the movie. But a 1-star average rating and HUNDREDS of back-to-back negative (written) reviews on a show? Hmm... MAYBE that's significant. And if you're a creator and you get hundreds of back-to-back negative reviews, MAYBE reconsider your content.

I want to reiterate that I occasionally like movies that were rated poorly. I have thoroughly enjoyed some movies that were 1 or 2 stars, and thoroughly hated some movies that were rated 5 stars, but that doesn't mean they are meaningless. It tends to be more LIKELY that a 5 star movie will be good, and more LIKELY that a 1 star movie will be bad.

"Trolls" was used as an excuse for Amy Schumer's stand-up failing too. I don't deny the existence of them, but at the same time, it still sounds like an excuse. I don't know about you guys, but Amy Schumer's stand-up IS terrible. Bill Nye Saves the World IS terrible. Dear White People IS terrible (and even racially divisive!). Blame the "alt-right" - but some stuff is simply just unbearable, and we must be allowed to communicate what we like and dislike, publicly.

[–] Strannger (2007) 8 years ago

I'm not getting worked up. Thats what I happened.

No they doxed people, got them fired, started Facebook pages to get them to commit suicide. On boat a they used sock either you left or be harrassed. Even Needham said you will attacked by trolls and nothing can be done.

I don't find it fun.

[–] catsidhe (1649) 8 years ago

I know it got hurtful, like an over-sized playground. But that's what happens with no prefects, I guess. Had the site been mine, I would have tried a few things before burning the house down.

[–] Strannger (2007) 8 years ago

What could he do? He had no way to mod as he had to many boards with no rotation like we have here, everyone was leaving and lawsuits up to the yin yang.

[–] catsidhe (1649) 8 years ago

Like most parasitr infestations, by the time he realised it was a real problem it was probably already too late. Hiring mods would have been too expensive. He could maybe have tried having people pay a subscription to be able to comment (but not to read comments). That wouldn't have taken care of all the trolls but moderation from that point may have been feasible. But not as late in the day as the troll worry came.

[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Overall I agree, however he had every reason to realise malignant trolls were becoming a serious problem long before he pulled the plug, yet chose to do nothing about it.

I think trolling definitely played a part in his decision, but not figuring out how to monetize the boards weighed more heavily. And in some ways it was a chicken/egg situation. The cesspool-like atmosphere on many of the boards would of course drive away those looking for intelligent discussions, which in turn would make them more difficult to monetize.

Added: To answer the OP's question, I don't like Netflix's new simplistic thumbs up/down rating system, and as far as I can tell, there's no way to see the overall ratings given by members. Generally I go by my own judgement, but if a film or show is rated unusually high or low, that factored into my decision on what to watch, and what to pass on.

[–] catsidhe (1649) 8 years ago

Now I come here to see if people said "dafuq did I just watch?"

How would it have been too difficult? A bit wobbly at first I would imagine, public outcry, pitchforks and accusations of devilry...

[–] FilmFan1983 (128) 8 years ago

Don't forget that Amazon reviews are no longer organized by most helpful. Despite the fact that people can enjoy nearly unlimited music, movies, and books for a minimal subscription fee, you now have to be a verified purchaser on Amazon to have your review displayed on the main page. And there is no way to filter out the verified reviews, so even if you select top reviews on the following page, the most helpful reviews will still be shoved down in favor of verified reviews. A lot of professional reviewers of entertainment media used Amazon reviews to build their brand, and consumers relied on it over other similar services, but now the site is dominated by 1 or 2 sentence reviews from older customers who don't really know what the review section is for. It's cluttered with people talking about everything but the product. I don't care how fast you got the product or the condition it was in, I want to hear about what you thought of the product itself. It's really sad what's going on. I'm sure it's not coincidental. I'm just surprised IMDb hasn't tried to disable their star ratings yet.

[–] kspkap (13555) 8 years ago

@FilmFan1983

Ditto to your comments about the Amazon review section. So, many times I've screamed "Then why are you reviewing the product? This section is for reviews of the PRODUCT! Not to review the seller, shipping speed, missing parts, etc." I've chastised some in the Comment section.

This is in response to any of the following: (1 Star)"The seller was late in shipping.", "(1 Star) I don't know how it works.".

Then the jewel of a review!...(3 Star) "Seems OK. I HAVEN'T used it yet." or (1 Star) "My surprise was ruined! The contents were displayed on the outside of the box!"

Recently I made a purchase using the information as listed. When I received the product it didn't concur with the listing. The listing was in error. I was furious to say the least! But, I left a 5 Star review. Why? I had used the same product previously. It was a good product. I explained thus in my worded review, but followed with my displeasure over the listing error to alert other shoppers. I then contacted the seller to no avail, so I contacted Amazon who as usual came through for me.

[–] Sentient Meat (1509) 8 years ago

I think Netflix got rid of their rating system, because they keep shrinking their selection and the "tailored" recommendation system hides this better than when you could search by rating. I used to regularly watch things in order of rating... and now they might as well have a spinning wheel of fortune in its place.