Cher: Icon of the Gay community...

I don't really know anything about Cher.... but as far as I'm aware, we chose her as an icon, rather than her purporting herself as a gay icon. If that's the case that just means we chose poorly, rather than her necessarily being a hypocrite. I think she only became a gay icon because she looks like a man.

But anyway, I look sideways at all these supposed "gay icons" in pop culture that aren't even gay or LGBT to begin with. Maybe that kind of *beep* could fly thirty years ago but there are more than enough out and proud people in entertainment these days that we don't need to resort to people like Cher who might profit off us but will never truly understand us or be one of us.



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"Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the antidote to shame."

May I ask you: What does one have to do to be considered a gay Icon in your opinion?

I've always found it interesting, this whole Icon thing.

Peace!

Visibility, notability. I mean, it's a personal thing for every individual. But me, I see gay icons as people who are out and proud and proving themselves in the world. For current, living icons that would mean people like Melissa Etheridge, Ian McKellen, Elton John, Tegan & Sara, Neil Patrick Harris, George Takei, Kevin Williamson, Barney Frank, Chely Wright, etc.

I certainly understand how people who aren't gay will be considered gay icons, like Cher. And especially people who weren't gay but were important to the gay rights movement. But intuitively to me, it just doesn't make sense -- how can you be a "Gay Icon" if you're not gay? Is Abraham Lincoln an African American Icon??

I'm more than willing to make many exceptions for people like Coretta Scott King who were activists for the gay rights movement and weren't LGBT. But when it comes to entertainers whose only claim to queerness is trying to sell their product to gay people, well that's not enough to be a gay icon in my book. To me it's an issue of role models.

But again I stress that this is my own criteria, and not a universal criteria.


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"Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the antidote to shame."

I've never seen her as a gay icon. It seems that almost every female singer or actress from decades ago is idolized by some parts of the gay community. They like diva types.

Not so much about politics as it is about people. Besides, who even mentioned politics? I don't consider kicking your son out to be a "political" issue, much more of a personal one. Whatever the case, that doesn't even have anything to do with my rejection of Cher. I'm only interested in LGBT people as my LGBT icons.

George Takei is a person. He's free to portray himself however he wants, as far as I'm concerned. "Mincing queens" exist in the world, why do you have a problem with that? I find that less than 1/5th of all the other lesbians I know are "butch" but I'm not going to discount a butch lesbian I meet as though she's doing us a disservice by being herself. And if we're talking about stereotypes, is camp not an aspect of the gay stereotype as well? Should we pick and choose which stereotypes are alright or should we just let people be themselves?

If other people want to embrace Cher, that's perfectly fine. Me, I think we're past the point where we need to idolize outsiders like that. Culture has progressed enough that we can have real gay people as our icons and those are the people I choose to venerate.

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Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the antidote to shame.