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Beethoven's Eroica voted greatest symphony of all time by conductors


German and Austrian composers occupy eight of top 10 places in survey of leading conductors by BBC Music magazine.

Beethoven’s thrilling, electrifying Eroica, a piece of music originally dedicated to Napoleon and celebrating the revolutionary spirit sweeping Europe, has been named the greatest symphony of all time by the world’s greatest conductors.

BBC Music Magazine surveyed 151 conductors working across the world to come up with a top 20 great symphonies.

The Eroica, Beethoven’s Third Symphony, came in at No 1, followed by his Ninth, the “Choral”, in second place. Mozart’s last symphony, No 41, the “Jupiter”, was in third place while Mahler occupied the next two places with his Ninth and Second symphonies respectively.

Surprisingly, Beethoven’s Fifth, with its instantly recognisable duh-duh-duh-duuuh opening, missed out on a top 10 spot, coming in 11th place.

Oliver Condy, editor of the magazine, admitted it was no great surprise Beethoven dominated the list. “It has been over 200 years since Beethoven’s symphony number three was written and the vote suggests that it has not been improved on in those years, which is remarkable really and is testament to his absolute genius.

“Conductors love conducting it. They love it because there is just so much to it, there is so much happening ... that opening is a real punch in the face.”

The British conductor Jonathan Nott, music director of the Tokyo Symphony Orchestra, told the magazine the Eroica was boundary-breaking. “This symphony is not about the glory of God, it’s about humans – our struggles, challenges and victories.

“Later, composers became preoccupied with life’s depressions and bitterness, but I never get that in Beethoven. You come away having experienced the power and joy of being alive.”

The Eroica, written in 1803, was originally destined to be called the Bonaparte, a celebration of Napoleon and all he stood for. Beethoven changed his mind when he heard that Napoleon had declared himself emperor, denouncing him as a tyrant and scrubbing out his name so hard there is a hole in the manuscript.

The Third heralded a new era for the symphony, said Han-Na Chang, chief conductor of the Trondheim Symphony. “He finds his voice and we see who he is.

“The way he works out all the motifs, melodies and themes in such detail, while at the same time maintaining a completely organic development of the emotional message, seems to me unbeatable.”

Condy said he would have predicted that the Ninth, which contains the European Union anthem, Ode to Joy, would have been at No 1. “There is this real joyful sense of brotherhood and unity, which is interesting of course in these Brexit times.”

Mahler is represented three times with his Second, Third and Ninth Symphonies; the Ninth has a beautifully slow final movement.

In third place is Mozart’s last symphony, No 41, while his arguably more popular 40th is at No 15.

“I’m not sure why the conductors don’t find it as alluring,” said Condy. “But don’t forget we are talking about people who know the symphonies inside out, they really get inside the works, the structure, the textures and orchestrations.”

The top 10 is completed by Brahms’s Fourth Symphony (6th); Berlioz’s Symphonie Fantastique (7th); Brahms’s First Symphony (8th); Tchaikovsky’s Sixth Symphony (9th ); and Mahler’s Third Symphony (10).

The most recent work on the list is Shostakovich’s Symphony No 5, ranked at 17. It was written in 1937, a time of great personal crisis for the composer after the state denunciation for his opera Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk.

The absence of more recently written symphonies is down to fashion, said Condy. “Composers don’t tend to write symphonies these days, they are mostly shorter orchestral pieces with titles.”

Each conductor was asked to name his or her top three symphonies in any order before the magazine processed that into a top 20. Among the conductors polled was Simon Rattle (Beethoven’s Third, Bruckner’s Eighth, Mahler’s Das Lied von der Erde), Marin Alsop (Barber’s First, Brahms’s Third, Mahler’s Second), who last year conducted Last Night of the Proms, and Sakari Oramo (Beethoven’s Third, Mahler’s Third, Sibelius’s Fifth), who will do so this year.
The BBC Music Magazine top 10

1. Beethoven Symphony No 3 (1803)
2. Beethoven Symphony No 9 (1824)
3. Mozart Symphony No 41 (1788)
4. Mahler Symphony No 9 (1909)
5. Mahler Symphony No 2 (1894 rev 1903)
6. Brahms Symphony No 4 (1885)
7. Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique (1830)
8. Brahms Symphony No 1 (1876)
9. Tchaikovsky Symphony No 6 (1893)
10. Mahler Symphony No 3 (1896)

• The top 20 is in the September issue of BBC Music Magazine.





You're my wife now.

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Not a bad choice by any means. Really, the entire top 6 are all valid choices for the top spot, though it's a bit mysterious how Beethoven's 5th didn't make it in there! I'd probably have Mahler's 2nd first, then Mozart's 41st, then Beethoven's 3rd, then Beethoven's 9th.

warriorspirit: if the penis is used as a pencil holder we'll incur a cost.

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I've always preferred Beethoven's 3d and 7th to his more famous 5th and 9th, much as I love them. I'm somewhat underwhelmed with the finale of the 9th, it's something that sounds thrilling the first time you hear it but becomes less so with each subsequent hearing (as opposed to the other three movements, where I discover something new and interesting every time).

Condy said he would have predicted that the Ninth, which contains the European Union anthem, Ode to Joy, would have been at No 1

The Ode to Joy's association with the EU doesn't help any. Somehow Schiller/Beethoven and some robotic pencil-pusher in Brussels just aren't a good fit.

1. Beethoven Symphony No 3 (1803)
2. Beethoven Symphony No 9 (1824)
3. Mozart Symphony No 41 (1788)
4. Mahler Symphony No 9 (1909)
5. Mahler Symphony No 2 (1894 rev 1903)
6. Brahms Symphony No 4 (1885)
7. Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique (1830)
8. Brahms Symphony No 1 (1876)
9. Tchaikovsky Symphony No 6 (1893)
10. Mahler Symphony No 3 (1896)

I'm happy to see the Brahms 4th symphony get such a high ranking, it measures up well next to Beethoven, but I'm surprised to see what I (and many others) consider Mahler's weakest work make the top 10 list at all. Tchaikovsky? I don't consider him in the same league as Beethoven or Brahms, but if any of his orchestral works deserve to be on the list, it would probably be his 6th.

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The Ode to Joy's association with the EU doesn't help any. Somehow Schiller/Beethoven and some robotic pencil-pusher in Brussels just aren't a good fit.
I see you clearly haven't heard the updated version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3USsVrxpzLk


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I see you clearly haven't heard the updated version

I can now see that I wasn't missing out on much.

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While I somewhat agree that the finale of Beethoven's 9th doesn't hold up well with repeat listens, the first three movements do, and I think the finale is one of those works that was so revolutionary for the time and can make such an impact on a first listen, that it doesn't really matter how well it holds up afterwards; if that makes sense.

Brahms's 4th is beloved because of its musical sophistication; it's basically the apotheosis of Brahms's classicism, eschewing the paradigm of romantic expression for pure musical formalism, especially the 4th movement: see the famous quote by Haslick about it that: "For this whole movement I had the feeling that I was being given a beating by two incredibly intelligent people."

I'm also puzzled why Mahler's 3rd is there over his 5th, or even the rather beloved 4th. Agree about Tchaikovsky not being in the same league, but I'm one of the few for whom his 6th does nothing for.

warriorspirit: if the penis is used as a pencil holder we'll incur a cost.

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The Tchaikovsky 6th may be the most original symphony since the Fantastique. What does it lack?

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The Tchaikovsky 6th may be the most original symphony since the Fantastique.
No way. If ending a symphony slow and quiet - i.e. doing what early Haydn did sometimes - is really so original, Brahms did it first anyway (and HE did it in a way Haydn never did - gradually winding down from fast and loud).


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I can now see that I wasn't missing out on much.
You say that, but deep down you know it's the greatest thing you've ever heard.


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