MovieChat Forums > Blu-ray Disc Releases > New to bluray- need immediate assistance...

New to bluray- need immediate assistance. Much appreciated


Hey,
I am a cinema tragic. I have watched more than 1500 movies and have 2 TB full of them. Because I could never afford them I never bought DVDs or Blurays. I kept adding them to my amazon wishlist hoping that one day I'd be able to afford them and today the day has come. The prices have also diminished drastically and I have a list of 72 films I am buying- mostly old.

Now I have two dilemmas and I'd love it if you can assist me:


1.) The look of film: As strange as this sounds I love the grainy, film stock look. I am not a fan of the glossy digital look. It looks like a video game and perhaps it is the reason I prefer older films.

How does bluray tackle this issue? I read one review of the Predator bluray and was agasht to learn that they cleaned the grain. In the pictures Arnold's face looks plastic and oily. I hate that. Is this a concern for all blurays? Alien, Eyes Wide Shut, Mulholland Drive, The Player are so alluring to me is becuase they were shot on film and have that grainy look. Do the blurays of these films change it to suit modern sensibilities?

2.)Which one to buy?

Okay now the reason I want to possess a collection is becuase of the extra features. The audio commentary, the production notes and details-the more the merrier. But I notice that there are so many versions of many movies. Which one do I buy because they keep coming up with new releases.
For example Blade Runner:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Blade-Runner-Blu-ray/50584/

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Blade-Runner-Blu-ray/545/

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Blade-Runner-Blu-ray/58935/

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Blade-Runner-Blu-ray/374/

Now, seriously which one do I choose? I want the best supplements and it is but obvious that the latest release will have all the previous supplements and then some more.

I am starting my collection primarily because of the extra features. This is what collection means to me. Like a part of that film is mine. Live streaming and netflix cannot give me that sense.

reply

If a film was grainy to begin with, you will actually see more grain on BD. It is a myth that HD makes everything "glossy." Some releases do use a digital smoothing technique (can't think of the name of it right now) but it is uncommon and I don't think you need to worry about it much. If you read reviews they are sure to mention it if it exists.

Passion is just insanity in a cashmere sweater!

reply

That is very reassuring, thanks.

reply

I've read this about Predator. I only own the bare-bones movie-only edition. It sucks to have to buy 2 versions of this movie, one to get the properly grainy original transfer, one to get the "Ultimate Hunter Edition" special features, but that is exactly what you will have to do at this point if you want to enjoy both.

This de-graining process is called DNR (digital noise-reduction). As I understand it, it first softens/diffuses the image, then applies electronic sharpness to restore detail to object edges. As you reported, the results are less than stellar.

James Cameron did a great job of de-graining his masterpiece, Aliens. It has some of the grain removed (high-speed film stocks of 1986 were rather coarse-grained) but leaves in just the right amount of grain to maintain that "film" look.

I wish Cameron would get on with transferring his cold-war underwater contact-with-extraterrestrials masterpiece, The Abyss, as well as his lighter look at a superspy Arnold Schwarzenegger as Harry Tasker, trying to maintain his marriage to Jamie Lee Curtis as Helen, in True Lies! These are currently only available on DVD, and only in 4x3 letterbox (not anamorphic)! Apparently, Fox cheaped out and used the same D-1 master tapes they used to transfer these films for VHS and laserdisc.

The Star Trek movies from Paramount, with the exception of the properly-transferred, grainy Star Trek II-The Wrath of Khan, also suffer this malady, and this is currently the only way to see them on blu.

The Robert Wise Director's Cut of the original Star Trek Motion Picture is only available on DVD. The blu-ray of ST-MP is the theatrical cut. I hear CBS who re-did some of the visual-FX shots for the Bob Wise DC only did those shots in standard-definition 480p! What were they thinking? I guess, at the time of the DVD's release, the year 2000, there was no high-def disc format, and Paramount didn't want to splurge on HD FX if they were not planning to re-release ST-MP in cinemas. Hopefully Paramount will wrangle with CBS to resolve whatever licensing rights disputes they have and pay to re-do the revised FX in 4k for theatrical re-release and blu. I think the Bob Wise Director's Cut of ST-MP is far superior to the theatrical version, not only in terms of new effects and a much more solid sound mix, but in terms of editorial balance. It deserves a proper blu-ray transfer.

I find the transfer of the old DVD of Raiders of the Lost Ark preferrable to the new blu-ray. On blu-ray, Raiders was given according to reviews the "royal, red carpet treatment" in the form of a new, velvetty-smooth clarity 4k scan, which has a great, organic, film-like quality. Unfortunately, restoration artists/transfer engineers/colorists really screwed up the contrast range in this 4k scan. Outdoor scenes are way too bright, whites are completely washed out, and interiors like in the Ravenwood bar are too dark. I really hope the problem is not in the original film negative! Plus, in the sound mix, John Williams' music has been so reverbed that it sounds like the London Symphony Orchestera is performing the Raiders score at a ball game. On DVD, Raiders' music has proper clarity and definition.

This new transfer of Raiders is unfortunately the only way to experience the movie in the Indiana Jones Complete Adventures blu-ray set. The second and third Indy adventures, Temple and Crusade, look great on blu, because they were probably made from the same 1080p transfers as the 1080p transfers of them that were used for DVD. I don't know how you feel about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, but it is the same transfer as the transfer used for its single-disc release, which looks great. You might have to buy an older DVD of Raiders to see, minus the resolution limitations of DVD, and hear Raiders the way it was originally experienced in cinemas.

There is a similar problem with John Williams' ("DAAA-DUM!") music in the 7.1 remix of Jaws. It is reverbed out and mixed with so many bubbles and other undersea activity that you can't even HEAR those all-important, ominous opening 2 notes that trigger primordial terror! Thankfully, Universal has included the original 1975 mono mix of Jaws on English Audio 2 of the blu-ray, where Johnny's all-important music is front, center and much louder. The sound-FX, however, of the 7.1 remix, are great, especially during the 4th of July Amity Beach panic scene, and the visual transfer is beautiful, so the restoration of Jaws on blu-ray is a mixed bag.

Don't buy the 2007 transfer of Mad Max 2-The Road Warrior (Max against blue skies on the cover). Buy the 2013 re-transfer (Max against grayish skies on the cover). The 2007 version is washed out, is too blue, and the night scene when Max is walking with the gas cans out in the wasteland and falls into a crevase alerting the Lord Humungus' Dogs of War, and is then allowed safe passage by the Feral kid distracting the baddies by making wolf calls, has been brightened up unnecessarily to the point where you see horrendous grain and a blue strip running down the left side of the frame. Also, the 2007 version has lost its omnipresent 360-degree sound-FX, like when we come out of the blower on Max's V8 Interceptor in the beginning and the gyrocopter fly-overs later, spectacular effects. In the 2013 version, the wonderful surround effects have happily been restored.

In the case of Blade Runner, you're probably OK going with the latest, greatest 30th Anniversary Edition, if it has all 5 versions (Final Cut, Initial U.S. Release, International Release, Director's Cut and Workprint) of the film. I owned the previous edition, the transfers look great and the special features rock.

Overall, with the exception of these and a few other examples, my experience with blu has been overwhelmingly positive.

Read Amazon's user reviews!!! End users like you and I who post reviews of these movies and their transfers on Amazon are not receiving financial compensation from movie studios and can thus post horrendous reviews if we feel a transfer sucks!

reply

Alien looks great on Blu, still very much film-like.

That "Ultimate" version of Predator is pretty much a worst case scenario, in most cases the difference is very minor. I still haven't seen the BD of Raiders of the Lost Ark though so can't comment on that one. Check out Apocalypse Now or Wild At Heart for good examples of very filmic, grainy HD transfers.

reply

A1- Grain is a property of photographic film. It's a trait of the film medium, and it's neither good nor bad. Sometimes excessive film grain is used for artistic purposes, but aside from that it was considered to be an undesirable artifact, along with smudges, lint and scratches.

When film grain isn't an intentional effect, special filters may be used during the disc mastering process to suppress or eliminate the film grain. Ideally this decision should be made by the people who made the film in the first place. If a film's director wants a non-grainy look, that's his or her prerogative.

Note that the Blu-ray disc itself is not a factor here. It's a part of the mastering process.


A2- New releases of the same movie are intended to make more money for the people who sell them. If you're a big fan of a certain fan, you may want to own every different version released, out of genuine interest or merely to prove your devotion.

If you have preferences, such as wanting to see film grain and "extra features", you can read the reviews of the different versions to see which one might be best for you. Simply put, more versions mean more choice for you.

reply