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Universalism in Christianity (not UU or New Age)? Something to think about

posted 4 years ago by twinA (4921)
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June 24, 2020 Wednesday 7:40 p.m.

Continuing off from our previous discussion (https://moviechat.org/general/General-Discussion/5ef15dfc1535e2524be48550/Question-about-Heaven-and-Hell?reply=5ef191bc1535e2524be48947), there was disagreement over my statement "People in Hell do suffer, yes, but they actually 'want' to be there, enjoying the company of their own misery." There is a misunderstanding on it, which I need to clarify. Read Hebrews 4:11-13, John 14:1-7 and Matthew 7:21-23 directly below, then I'll explain what I meant. Quotations are from the Revised Standard Version (RSV) bible. Short paragraphs are maintained so no context is lost.

Hebrews 4:11-13
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And before him no creature is hidden, but all are open and laid bare to the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

John 14:1-7
1 “Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going.” 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him.”

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’

Let's be honest here; no one really wants to go to Hell or be in it. What I was trying to say was that those deserving to be in Hell, say outwardly with their mouths " Help me, Jesus, I understand what I've done wrong and I'm willing to change. I believe in you and everything you stand for." He will turn the other cheek and look away because he sees them for who they really are, inwardly examining what they are actually saying in their soul, fully knowing they don't mean what they say to Him. Jesus will only listen to them until they accept Him as Christ, God Almighty. This applies both to the unbelieving righteous and unrighteous. The difference is, the unbelieving righteous are given the opportunity to go to Heaven should they show the same love God (Jesus) does for them. The wicked unrighteous will be no strangers in Hell; it will feel like home to them even though it's awful from a righteous person's point of view.

Lastly, let's also get this baggage out of the way; the fundamental flaw of new age universalism undermining God's punishment and misunderstanding God's divine justice. The following is an article highlighting the implicit dangers of it:
https://www.learnreligions.com/what-is-universalism-700701

As witnessing Christians for God, generally speaking, we should never strive to intentionally or unintentionally mislead and misinform people.

The universalism notions I'm talking about is part of the Christian faith tradition inherited from Judaism, not some new age mysticism or an unbiblical misconception of watered down 'salvation for all' variety.

Thank you for listening and considering what I had to say, so any more feedback you have for me to chew on would be greatly appreciated.

May peace be upon you,
twin

~~/o/

[–] Fandango (534) 4 years ago

The past 250-300 years have constructed a civilization based around the guiding principles from The Age of Enlightenment. What the Age of Enlightenment proffered as its tenets, were that the intricacies of life can be ascertained through an expansion of knowledge, which comes through observable means (i.e., scientific method).

It was this period that planted the seed of religious doubt, which has become more and more evident as the new century propels itself. Contemporary civilizational paradigms have no room for religion, for they place the temporal and observable as the only concepts that can exist. God, therefore, is a shibboleth. He does not represent anything, but is merely seen as a constructed tale designed to impede civilizational progress, freedom, and pleasure.

There is a gross misunderstanding of religion, which I believe has come as a product of religious institutions existing within the confines of the temporal. When the modern-day proletariat/debtor class is rapidly disenfranchised, he sees Christ as offering nothing tangible, no real solution, and merely as an abstract notion for spiritual development, which is also seen as pointless. The scientific materialist sees the soul as irrelevant, with no connections to moral or virtuous behavior. He sees contemporary decline as a product of incorrect policies or actions, instead of the abatement of morality, which has roots in culture/religion.

Universalism is merely an appeal to justice in an atheistic world, without Christ, for whom one must actively strive towards. It is an attempt to deconstruct the cognitive dissonance that exists within some Christians regarding the slave class of either serving Christ or being condemned to Hell. More importantly, it is an attempt to create a piece of cohesion that is absent with religion because of its myriad of denominations and factions. The universalist sees religion as a rough framework, and not as a comprehensive outline for correct living.

Take care,
Bob

[–] twinA (4921) 4 years ago

June 27, 2020 Saturday 2:50 p.m.

As a student, I learn as best as I can even if it means having to take a deep look at myself when realizing that a lot of my own ideas are preconceptions needing to be confronted and challenged, like the planting of a mustard seed. Your input and response has been extremely valuable to me.

I look forward to our future correspondence,
Corey

~~/o/