I do want higher wages for the working class. - Politics Discussion

[–] Bubbathegut (18054) 9 months ago

I would like to see higher wages too but I dont think its possible in todays society. Corporations put profits above everything, including human rights. Corporations turn a blind eye to horrible working conditions if it meant higher bonuses for the executives.

Hopefully someday all the jobs that were sent overseas will come back to America. Thats our only hope at this point.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

If we change the conditions, and give leverage to the workers, they will be forced to give higher wages.

I've been in a situation where I hadd the leverage. IT WAS EVEN MORE WONDERFUL THAN YOU THINK.

i would wish that on all workers.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

"If we change the conditions, and give leverage to the workers, they will be forced to give higher wages."

That already happened about 2-3 years ago!!

There was a shortage of workers so businesses were begging for workers. That lead to higher salaries and perks for new hires including remote work! Government and Big Business were not happy. They want employees to be desperate for jobs which allow for lower wages and working conditions dictated by employers!

Then, I read about how the economy was going to be purposely weakened with higher interest rates which slow business growth and creates layoffs thereby lowering salaries. Lower salaries create less consumer spending which hurts businesses causing more layoffs aka: desperate workers and lowers inflation more.

High employment and strong wage growth are considered bad news when they're attempting to lower inflation. Something is messed up about that.

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[–] JoWilli (19972) 9 months ago

there was this thing that happened 2 to 3 years ago where the govt paid everyone to stay at home for a year, I cant remember what happened now.

then the govt raised interest rates and slowed the economy, thus creating mass layoffs. I am not sure who was in charge when this happened though.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

Covid happened. An inept orange moron refused to follow the pandemic playbook left by two prior presidents to contain the virus.

The orange moron caused massive bankruptcies and unemployment. Immigration slowed to a crawl.

Millions of seniors retired early because of covid and fewer immigrants left more job openings. Others worked remotely afraid of dying from the orange moron's virus.

A new leader came and followed Keynesian economics to prevent a recession. It worked! The economy heated up, poverty went down, wages up, job creation happened, consumers spent money which caused inflation and a huge jump in the GDP.

Interest rates went higher allowing savers to earn hundreds to thousands each month. The economy slowed, but is still very strong and the best globally. Thanks Biden!

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[–] JoWilli (19972) 9 months ago

you should be a comedian

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

"I want economic, trade and immigration policies designed to change the market conditions..."
Can you be more specific about your ideas?

The U.S. has the strongest economy on Earth. Would your changes weaken it, thereby hurting workers more?

The U.S. is a plutocracy. The rich have gained more power since the 1970s creating an expanded wealth gap. Reverse some of those changes would help. The problem is that the the rich own the media and politicians. Their propaganda works by demonizing policies which help workers with the "socialism" label, thereby turning some workers against it.

Immigration helps the economy especially when the birth rate is declining. Immigrants create businesses, also.
Trade wars and higher wages increase inflation.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

1. The us has teh LARGEST economy on Earth. Wages are the primary benefit of an economy to workers. HIgher wages will NOT hurt workers.

2. I am talkinga bout reversing some of those changes. Specifically Trade, and immigration policies. Also, we could encourage more stay at home moms.

3. Immigration helps macro economic growth. But standard of living is more a product of WAGES. Immigration decreases wages.

4. The rest of the world is already waging a trade war against US. We just aren't fight back. We are the world's bitch.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

1. Employers don't want to pay higher wages because it hurts their profit. They want cheap labor.

"A People's History of the United States" by Zinn. This history book tells the length that employers went to keep wages low throughout history. Workers were fired, beaten, imprisoned and killed fighting for higher wages and better working conditions.

2. Trade and immigration aren't the problems. The entire system is rigged against regular folks. For instance, cheap and free labor for private companies and government from incarcerated individuals mainly from the poor classes. What are you going to do to stop prison labor which is in the Constitution? Slavery never ended, it was only limited. Reread the 13th amendment closely.

Realistically, two incomes are needed to run a household. And most husbands want their wives to work. I know a few men who protested when their elves wanted to stay home. Most wives want to work and don't trust remaining dependent on a man when the divorce rate is over 50%.

3. Technology is replacing workers including immigrants. Americans don't want to do farming which is hard and low pay. Again, less immigration ruins the economy. I would leave immigration alone.

4. What trade war? The U.S. has the strongest economy in the world. Trump's dumb trade war with China caused higher consumer prices, fewer jobs created, and lost clients for farmers.

If you want higher wages, then you'll have to find ways to help yourself. Find out where the good paying jobs are and get one. Or learn a skill or invest for more money.

If you wait for the system to change or a savior then you're wasting your time. MLK Jr. was fighting for higher wages in the 1960s. And people for centuries before him. Like I wrote, the system became worse in the 1970s when the rich began to fight back. They won.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

1. I find it hard to believe that prison labor is a signficant factor in the labor market. Do you have any numbers to support your... claim?

2. Immigration is certainly a big part of the problem. you flood the labor market with labor, the price ie wages, goes down, or at least stays down.

3. Bad trade policy is certainly a big part of the problem. You reduce demand for labor, you reduce the price, ie wages.

4. Women entering the labor market effectively doubled supply. If you were an evil rich man that wanted to keep wages low, that would have been a brilliant plan.

5. Technology, especially automation is also a factor. It is one of many. Just because it exists does not mean that we cannot address the other factors.

6. We have the LARGEST economy in the world, not hte strongest. The size of our market gives US power. WE do not use it to protect our interests. That's dumb.

7. "learning a skill" is advice you give to an individual. It is not an answer to the working class. We can have policies that serve or protect their interests.

8. Your defeatism is odd. And rejected.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

1. Prison Industrial Complex System:
"the average hourly wage for a prison job is 63 cents, with some states paying as little as 14 cents per hour and others paying as much as $2.25 per hour."
"Seven states – Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas – pay nothing for the vast majority of prison work."
"US prison workers produce $11bn worth of goods and services a year"
"That figure amounts to roughly 800,000 people"

"“The United States has a long, problematic history of using incarcerated workers as a source of cheap labor"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-workers-low-wages-exploited

Private companies use prison labor for hundreds of food products:
https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e

Laws were changed in order to arrest as many people as possible - mainly nonviolent drug arrests:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/US_incarceration_timeline.gif/420px-US_incarceration_timeline.gif

Former prisoners' lives are ruined since they are discriminated in jobs, housing, education funding, etc. which traps them in poverty. Their families suffer with an absentee parent. It's mainly poor people (POC & white) who are victimized by this system.

The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness is a book by Michelle Alexander
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow

2. Immigrants are doctors, engineers, scientists, computer techies, nurses, etc.. They're 80% more likely to start a business than native-born. Immigrants (14 percent of the U.S. population) wield $1.3 trillion in spending power. They pay taxes. Immigrants added $2 trillion to the U.S. GDP in 2016 and $458.7 billion to state, local, and federal taxes in 2018.

I'll add that immigrants prefer certain states. 45% of the nation’s immigrants live in just three states: California (24%), Texas (11%) and Florida (10%). California had the largest immigrant population of any state in 2018, at 10.6 million. Texas, Florida and New York had more than 4 million immigrants each.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

1. 11 billion? Out of a 20 trillion dollar economy? That's irrelevant. Immigration and trade are what are killing wages.

2. Immigrants are those. This thread is about the working class. Plenty of immigrations competing for those jobs too. Your... dodge on that issue was weird.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

You're a xenophobe. Immigration helps the economy. Americans aren't qualified for many jobs which is why immigrants are allowed to come and work.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

You saying phobe don't mean shit.

Immigration does not help the economy. You claimed that already. We are in the portion of the debate where it is time for yout to back up your claims with something.

And all you have so far is saying phobe, and repeating your claim.

What else you got?

Americans aren't qualified for many of the jobs?

THEN LET THE CORPS STARVE FOR WORKERS UNTIL THEY ARE READY TO PAY FOR TRAINING.

I don't want jobs for freaking Indians. I want jobs for AMERICANS.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

Immigrants Contribute Greatly to U.S. Economy
https://www.cbpp.org/research/immigrants-contribute-greatly-to-us-economy-despite-administrations-public-charge-rule

The Contributions of Immigrants Are Essential to U.S. Economic Growth and Competitiveness
https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/democrats/2022/12/the-contributions-of-immigrants-are-essential-to-u-s-economic-growth-and-competitiveness

Immigration is Economic Development
https://eig.org/immigration-is-economic-development/

Immigrants Make Economies More Dynamic, Increase Employment Growth
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2023/02/23/immigrants-make-economies-more-dynamic-increase-employment-growth/?sh=320c8ce2427c

You're a xenophobe. You also sound lazy and unmotivated.

Immigration helps the economy. Instead of blaming immigrants for YOUR failures, help yourself.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

1. Those arguments have been debunked by history. The ivory tower inteillectuals need to pay more attention to the real world.

2. You saying phobe, means nothing to me.

3. This thread is about me wanting higher wages for hte working class. And you are attacking me for that. Why are yo hostile to the AMERICAN working class?

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

3. If you want cheap products, you leave trade policy alone.

4. Your idea of keeping women barefoot and pregnant isn't going to work in the 21st century. I know couples in which the woman is earning 6 figures as well as the husband. The couple isn't going to give up a combined $250k income which creates a nice lifestyle.

5. Technology is a major factor. It's killing jobs.

6. We have the largest and strongest economy in the world. If you want to say that distribution is poor then I'll agree.

7. Yes, it is. Best way to help the poor or working-class is by helping yourself to not struggle financially.

"We can have policies that serve or protect their interests. "
I already wrote that those policies were attacked and destroyed by the rich starting in the 1970s. "Evil Geniuses: The Unmaking of America: A Recent History" by Anderson details the laws, policies and tax codes which were changed. I literally observed it as it happened. The U.S. is a plutocracy. How will you end that?

8. I'm not the one crying about being working-class. You are!

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

3. I don't give a fuck about cheap products. I want jobs. ALL THE JOBS.

4. i like when libs put words in my mouth. It shows that they know they have lost the debate. I repeat, encourage stay at home moms. If you want to address that seriously, try again.

5. Automation is a major factor. It is not the only factor, nor is it a reason to not take action on the other fronts.

6. I want higher wages for the working class. You are resisting that idea. Why?

7. No, it's not. The working class is a huge section of the population and refusing to have any policies to serve or protect their interests is... not good.

8. "Crying"? I want higher wages for the working class. Why are you attacking me?

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

3. Jobs are already here. There is a labor shortage, 'member?

4. Can dads stay at home, also? I would gladly stay at home if you pay my bills. Going to work sux!

5. But, I don't see you taking any action.

6. "I know that this is an inflationary pressure... i do NOT want to increase the min wage. I want economic, trade and immigration policies"

Your ideas will decrease wages and cause unemployment.

7. The working-class pay higher taxes than rich people. Don't you believe fixing the tax issue will help get more money in their pockets? It's not always what you earn, but how much you keep. Also, need to address the high cost of rent/mortgages which is a sizeable expense. More affordable housing needs to be built. Realistically, no change unless the rich power structure is weakened. Good luck with that!

8. Because your ideas won't work without acknowledging the power structure which exists in the U.S.. You'll need to find a way to weaken it in order to change anything.

Or... Historically, conservatives support rich people and big business. Vote and promote democrats in 2024. Liberal president, congress and senate are needed to make economic changes without obstruction. Biden attempted to create BBB policy which would've created training and well-paying jobs, but was shot down by Republicans.

You need to know who in Washington is trying to help and who is hindering.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

3. Yes. And I want to keep it that way. For at least three generations. The employers have had their way since the 60s. Time to let the workers have a turn.

4. I want policies to enable and encourage stay at home moms. Decrease the labor supply, raise wages, reduce kids in day care.

5. I vote and donate accordingly.

6. Decreasing labor supply will decrease wages? LOL. WRONG.

7. Your request to change the subject rejected. I WANT HIGHER WAGES FOR THE WORKING CLASS.

8 "Acknowledgeg teh power structure"?.... Oh, so, you don't care about issues that actually effect people's lives like WAGES, you just want to... push your politics...

I knew that, and I appreciate you admitting it.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

You're just lazy. Learn a skill so you're not competing for unskilled, low-paying, dead-end jobs.

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

Your disrespect for these jobs... is not credible.

You clearly want the mexican immigrantss, legal and ilegal to have access to them.

So, your pretense tha they are not of value, is...shit talk to hide that you want them, that you want those jobs and those wages to go to MEXICANS and NOT Americans.

Why are you more sympathetic to mexicans than to your fellow Americans?

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[–] parkerbot (9089) 9 months ago

I want someone to make a samosa that isn't spicy.

Oh, and I want everyone not in the top 1% to neutralize the 1%, preferably peacefully.

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[–] BeaSouth (3298) 9 months ago

When we import 7M+ unskilled and impoverished people in three years and abrogate our immigration system so that it bears no connection to the needs of the U.S., working class wages will not improve in a generation. And soon those people will clamor and become violent when their dreams are obliterated

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

Agreed. THis pretense that the flooding the labor market with foreign labor won't hurt american workers is ....

clearly just nonsense gaslighting.

THe only question is WHY these peopel want to hurt use workers.

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[–] Keelai (34864) 9 months ago

You should have went to college or learned a skill. Why do you want to compete for crappy jobs?

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[–] Corbell (10995) 9 months ago

I want higher wages for the US working class.

You are attacking me personally for that.

Why are you hostile to the idea of higher wages for the US working class?

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