without consumer protection and regulation, how can consumers make any sort of informed purchasing decision? its already hard now given shell companies and how larger companies own smaller brands. how will it magically work in libertarianism?
shareThe same way conservatives makes decisions in liberalism.
sharewhich literally answers nothing......
shareExactamundo.
shareyes you answered nothing......... various liberal democracies have consumer protections, labelling laws, inspections, safety standards ect. care to explain how corporate benevolence works as an economic theory?
sharePlease explain libertarianism and how it would differ from liberalism.
shareliberalisms emphasizes individual autonomy, equality of opportunity, and the protection of individual rights (primarily to life, liberty, and property), originally against the state. this was at the time when the state was absolutist. often libertarians call themselves "classic liberals"
you aare making a false comparison. the comparison is libertarianism vs a regulated mixed market system
Liberalism also states you can get arrested for drunk driving and no one will care. The body camera footage will mysteriously get lost or never released. Then you can fly to the Vatican and pay the Pope to absolve you of your sins. Honestly being a liberal is beneficial. You can can do whatever you want with no repercussions.
shareThat is kind of an odd question, wouldn't you agree? How do we make informed decisions now? Look at buying a car for example. We look at websites with reviews from people who have actually drove the cars we are looking into.
sharesome products dont have reviews. when you go to the grocery store for example. do you look at reviews of the 30+ products you buys? without basic consumer protections, safety standards, inspections ect how does one do this? On a big ticket purchase like a car for sure you are right, but if regulations are removed why couldn't a corporation delete all the bad reviews, keep all the good ones?
its why I call "the libertarian myth of the Omnicient consumer". where consumers have the time and ability to have full knowledge of products they buy.
I usually like to decide for myself, but pretty much everything has reviews online. Even foods from Walmart for example.
I'm sure the issue is about consumer safety more than anything. Which I do support even as a moderate libertarian myself.
and so as you walk through walmart doing a quick shop, you look at reviews of 30+ products? you spend around 2 hours shopping? also regulation is needed to ensure these companies simply dont delete bad reviews. this "anti libertarian"
"I'm sure the issue is about consumer safety more than anything. Which I do support even as a moderate libertarian myself."
ya but why? won't the free market regulate itself? bad companies with bad products won't be purchased right? you aren't sounding libertarian at all.
the thing is regulation can actually lead to better capitalism. which libertarians never understood yet makes perfect sense
I've seen extreme libertarianism, and I'm no fan of it at all. I'm libertarian in the sense that I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
I generally speed shop for groceries, I know what I want, but many do spend an hour or two shopping around. I personally like to try new items for myself, but as I said if you wanted to see what others said you can look online.
I highly doubt websites like Walmart and Amazon would be willing to just delete reviews for no reason, unless it offends someone with their comments.
Generally, yes, if a product is bad the consumer will ignore it and it will disappear. This happens even now. I'm speaking to actual safety of products. Products that might need to be recalled for example. Protections are actually helpful there. If hardcore libertarians want to disagree about that, then I'd say they're wrong.
theres degrees for sure.
Most dont spend an hour or two shopping. and if they do its certainly not because they are googling reviews of every single product.
"I highly doubt websites like Walmart and Amazon would be willing to just delete reviews for no reason, unless it offends someone with their comments. "
Because they cant. if they had a finical reason to and could legally, they would. many companies have been caught doing so. are you really saying "a corporation wouldn't do something to maximize profits"
"Generally, yes, if a product is bad the consumer will ignore it and it will disappear. This happens even now. I'm speaking to actual safety of products. Products that might need to be recalled for example. Protections are actually helpful there. If hardcore libertarians want to disagree about that, then I'd say they're wrong."
why is it recalled? due to regulation. if not, in libertarianism the market should decide it just won't sell and the product will cease. but we all know realities far more complicated. after investing money in a product companies are hesitant to pull it. if they can make more than lawsuits cost them, why would they? if they can delete bad reviews and keep selling it due to no regulation, why wouldn't they?
I get what you're say, and I don't really disagree. But with 24 hour news media, things aren't like they were decades ago. And how many are truly advocating the removal of product safety regulations? The fringe most likely, but that would be an extremely small group. Not even worth getting upset over at that point.
shareim just curious what you mean about the news media? im wondering like how that applies im legit curious?
you may be a reasonable more moderate one, and the joke is that if you have 3 different libertarians in a room, you will have 4 different variations of the ideology and they will all call each other not true libertarians.
But many many are. watch the debates. some of advocating no drivers licence, and got booed for doing so. One of the most famous thinkers, Milton Friedman, was pro ford pinto. car that literally exploded.
I agree it is a fringe, but thats why I posted this. to get that fringe to discuss and defend their wacky position.
The news media being the big 3 or 4 if you will. Fox, CBS, NBC, and ABC. I doubt they would allow faulty products to be given a pass. Some would of course, if they advertise and pay well you know.
That is a good joke, and definitely true.
That example with the pinto fits in perfectly with today. General Motors had issues with their steering about a decade or so, shortly after the bailout. About a dozen or so people actually died from it. Nothing ever really came of it. I know especially of this because the Chevy Cobalt my father had at the time suffered from this issue. The dealer claimed it was the steering column, they "fixed it", but the problem never was solved. We are seeing the same problem now with Hyundai/Kia with their engine fires. Owners are actually being told not to park their cars in a garage.
I don't mention this because we shouldn't have regulation, but I do mention it because when failures like this do happen, the nuts come out saying the government needs to step aside.
"The news media being the big 3 or 4 if you will. Fox, CBS, NBC, and ABC. I doubt they would allow faulty products to be given a pass. Some would of course, if they advertise and pay well you know. "
I mean they may run a story but given how fast the news cycle is these days, it'll blow over. theres also millions and millions of products. and yes as you pointed out they tend not to hit advertisers.
hence why we need regulation. because we cant rely on journalists good will to cover every faulty product. also it doesnt have to be news worthily bad
ya cars are notoriously bad.
either way you seem reasonable so my comment wasnt really aimed at you. you may be economically conservative but hardly libertarian in any sort of Ayn rand, Milton Friedman sense.
where they believe in the most minimal government to the extreme and a "free market" that self regulated.
Anarcho-capitalism is so dingbat that even the GOP won't touch it. The last thing capitalists want is a level playing field. Libertarians live in their head, and it's not a good place. If you have discussions with their political leaders, you'll see what I mean.
shareRegulations and taxes are what make democracy work. They are the teeth of agreements made to protect the people who otherwise have no recourse to the depredations of the plutocratic class.
Capitalism is only workable and tamable with a strong democracy, including voting, and unionization of the worker class.
Democracy is the only thing that makes capitalism work. Without democracy and a voice of the people, free speech and unbiased news, information and education there is no way democracy is anything but a feel good work.
Socialism = Capitalism + Democracy
Fascism = Capitalism - Democracy
I do agree. unfortunately the elites and corporations are constantly trying to undermine it and move us to corporate fascism lite.
share