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WOW!!! Mark down (Oct 2, 2019) as one of the most stunning days of this epic political saga for the history books.

posted 5 years ago by eYeDEF (5050)
34 replies | jump to latest

Let's recap:

Pelosi and Schiff conduct highly covered and focused presser where they kept nailing Trump to the wall for having confessed to crime of extortion detailed in Zelensky call summary. Schiff cites how this is exactly what the founders designed impeachment and removal to address. They also announce WH subpoenas will soon fly and any failure to comply will result in an impeachment article on obstruction. This presser baits Trump into his own meltdown.

The Trump presser with the Finnish PM didn't disappoint; it was a meltdown for the ages. It reminded me of Anthony Hopkins portrayal of Nixon towards the end of the movie. He was squirming and pissed when asked direct questions, searching for words and targets while spewing out slews of lies. But mainly, his eyes betrayed a fear and realization he knew how bad it was for him. He's rational enough to understand what crimes he committed and he's flailing like a fish caught in a net hoping for one of 3 things: 1) a way to turn the tables on the Dems 2) a way to buy time to resign or 3) a way to shiv someone else with the blame while he stays in office. He knows that transcript has made it all that much harder to pull off.

State Dept IG did deliver (despite Raskin being a complete amateur at the mic. Dude should keep his mouth shut if he doesn't have fully formed thoughts) a dossier of conspiracy theories hatched by those who want to align with Trump's grand conspiracy: that DNC/Clinton/Ukraine and anti-Trump contingent in FBI set Trump and Russia up. At first it looked like we might never learn how this all got to Pompeo's desk. But then RUDY TO THE RESCUE! He bails us out with the Cliff Notes on how he culled it all together and gave it to Pompeo (who then sent it to FBI) to pressure State Dept officials to get in line or get out. LOLZ! Rudy is determined to knife Pompeo. He will not be the fall guy. He wants everyone to know, loud and clear, he was working with the State Department. I was grateful he could help. He confirmed he repeatedly consulted Manafort in jail through attorneys to get more context and information for the shakedown of Zelensky, framing of Biden, and Russia investigation itself! Good dog Rudy!

And then there was Pence. The WaPO featured an utterly fascinating tale of palace knifing. The WH wants everyone to know Pence's national security advisor attended the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky; Pence had full access as he was briefed shortly thereafter and had summary in his briefing book when he met Zelensky in Warsaw Sept 1. Pence also repeated Trump line about 'corruption', reaffirming to Zelensky military aid would not be released unless Trump got what he wanted. Pence's weak defense was to claim ignorance; that he didn't know or fully appreciate what the transcript meant. Total bullshit. Trump just roped Pence more tightly to his flaming blimp. [Stick with me to the bitter end Mikey or your political career is over] For Pence his existential choice is 1) stick with Trump, lose and face charges or 2) resign and potentially face charges (you think Trump/Barr would let him get away without an indictment if he did that? No WAY!), or 3) cut a deal with Schiff by providing all the receipts and get some form of congressional immunity. As Chris Matthews noted there's no way Pence could assume the Presidency for having committed the same crime as Trump. Pence's political career is history.

So where does that leave us? There's already enough of a smoking gun to impeach Trump, charge Rudy, and force Pompeo's resignation. We have Rudy knifing Pompeo, Pompeo knifing some State Dept schlubs and possibly the VP, Trump knifing his VP, and Bolton knifing everybody. This is akin to the dreaded "Circular Firing Squad" signaling the end of losing presidential campaigns and would spell curtains for most administrations. But I sense an even larger howitzer smoking in the shadows for which we can start to see broad outlines. When it emerges it will end this sordid presidency once and for all and probably send the GOP into the political wilderness for at least 12 years.

That hand grenade is the other 25 minutes of the Zelensky call. So far we've only seen a summary that covers 5-8 minutes of a 30 minute convo. WTF is on the complete transcript? I think we can make a pretty good guess. First, WSJ told us Trump made 8 references to Biden. We should see even more explicit quid pro quo demands relating to the base extortion demand.

But I suspect there's something even more damning on that call having to do with Russia's designs on Ukraine. [cont]

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

[cont]

I suspect the Russian backed "peace" deal Zelensky capitulated to earlier this week was pushed by Trump as part of the package he was expected to agree to as a condition of releasing military aid.

The Steinmeier Formula that Zelensky agreed calls for elections to be held in the Russian separatist controlled areas of Donbas to give them special status (i.e. a permanent foothold for Moscow). The elections would be held with no foreign troops present. But the Russians (in classic KGB parlance) claim they have no troops in Donbas and the opposition is 'grass roots' or 'local' (except it's not. It's Russian troops re-badged to look like a homegrown revolt against the government in Kyiv) The invasion and annexation of Crimea used this blueprint.

I strongly suspect Trump made direct reference to the Steinmeier Formula that Zelensky felt he had no choice but to cut a deal with Russia. Trump has made several statements to this effect, including the recent press conference. Zelensky had a scared look on his face when Trump mentioned this. He looked traumatized because I suspect that's the part of the call that bothered him the most. Pence, being the dipshit that he is, reinforced that very same message when he met Zelensky in Poland on Sept 1.

If this truth is uncovered, it will show Trump sacrificed Ukraine's freedom and America's national interest for Russia's priorities. It meets at least a layperson's understanding of betrayal: disloyalty or [t]reason (with a small 't'). It's what we'd expect a Manchurian POTUS to do.

This should end Trump and the entire administration. It's treachery to undermine US interests in favor of Russia. We can argue over the definition of war applicable here to establish [T]reason, but Russia is a direct adversary who acts against the interests of the US. To side with them on a pivotal geopolitical issue (which Trump displayed an understanding of in yesterday's presser, calling Ukraine a "big beautiful wall between Russia and Europe" is a betrayal of the US and a key ally. It also betrays NATO. That Trump also mixed this with personal gain (emoluments from Ukraine and the in kind contribution to his campaign) pretty squarely falls within the bribery reference in the impeachment clause of the US Constitution.

I do think the sheer heft of his treachery weighs on him; he knows he can't stop the train. That's why he's ensured Pence and Pompeo stay on it with him.

The oncoming trainwreck will be gory, regardless of who is left standing. This real life political drama is turning out to be more riveting than any political thriller I've ever witnessed.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Damn! The whole administration is drowning without a life raft in sight. Looks like Pelosi will be our first woman president - poetic justice.

Thanks for recap of one of the most important days in recent history!

[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

We can only hope Pence is dragged down as well.

Can you even IMAGINE the Trumpers and how they would react to a theoretical Pelosi presidency? Some of their heads may literally explode. XD

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

As Palin said a few years ago, "Splodey heads keep 'splodin' "

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Yesterday's WaPO article has Pence in too deep. The White House basically offered a lot of damning evidence against Pence that would've otherwise taken months to uncover. Trump has him set up to take the fall. He'll say that his "perfect" (now downgraded to "very good") meeting with Zelensky was messed up by Pence's "very bad" meetings. He'll replace Pence with Ivanka. Pence will either stay tied to Trump and go down with the ship, or find a way through backchannels to cut some deal with Schiff and Pelosi.

For now, he’s on Team Trump, but I don’t think either side trusts the other and the knives will be out from now on.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Seriously? Replace him with his mistress Ivanka???

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

He would if he could. Majority vote of both Houses of Congress needed to replace a vacant VP slot so I'm pretty sure Dems would not support Ivanka for VP.

Doubt Dems would confirm Haley either. I think what would happen is that Trump would simply nominate Ivanka at the GOP convention and Pence drops off the ballot. He could just then resign and just create an unfilled vacancy that Ivanka could then fill. But he might have an internal GOP revolt if he tried to pull that. At least the GOP establishment is behind Haley. If it's Haley, this is how he'd get her on the ticket as well.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Maybe he could appoint her as his 'acting VP' like he's filled so many other positions - no need to have a vote in Congress, since she's got 'acting' before the title. Wow - as I type this, it scares me.

[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

The thought of Ivanka as VP...

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

The one question that makes the heads of the trumpanzees explode who claim "total exoneration" by Mueller in the Russia probe; if he really was exonerated, why is he working so hard to discredit the probe?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I didn't even think of that ! Excellent question! Let's see if anyone can answer this....LOL

[–] elcamino (15540) 5 years ago

Representative Rashida Tlaib's re-election campaign has started selling T-shirts based on her most widely-known phrase: "Impeach the MF." The new merchandise launched following the announcement of a formal impeachment inquiry into President Trump earlier this week.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Proof she's a Proud Capitalist maximizing her marginal income in storied tradition of the good 'ole USA.

Keep Her Here!

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I heard Pence bought dozens of those shirts for himself, his family, friends and staff. That was before his house of bricks crumbled on top of him yesterday.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

ROTFLMAO!!!!@#$!@

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Heard he sold them this morning to Melania...

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I would pay to see her wearing one. I wonder if I could start a gofundme page to make it happen. lolz.

[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

Wow...

You know, I've been so disillusioned and disenchanted ever since Donald skated through the Russia probe unscathed and all the other garbage he's done that, I have to be honest--I didn't think much of this entire situation for the past couple weeks. That's how crooked and bad Trump is--it was just another "eh, so what else is new?" revelation to me. I got so used to seeing this guy break the law and so used to seeing him get away with it that I felt NOTHING when I read this. I had lost all faith that anything would get this guy unseated.

Then, as I started to look into this more and more each day I noticed something: this was amounting to something. I still had my doubts though. However, even some of the largest skeptics have been turning their heads at this one lately. Even people who are dead convinced the vote would never make it through the senate seem to think that, one way or another, this will end Trump in some fit, form or fashion.

I don't want to keep my hopes up but, for the first time ever, I'm seeing a vast majority now saying: "this is the end for Trump". I can't tell you how damn long I've been hoping to see those words en mass online, the news, etc. It was always speculative. Even during the Russian probe days it was speculative as to whether it would amount to anything or not. But not this. This time Trump very much outed himself. He got so used to getting away with everything that he had reached some sort of god-like level in his own mind. He thought he was bulletproof. Hell, up to now...he was. Essentially, he was. Only now he screwed up big. Only now he did something even his most loyal admins were going: "That was fcking stupid of him to do that".

And now here you are, no longer having much doubt about this ending Donald. I respect your political views around here enough that your confidence here makes ME confident. You've been generally correct about most things you've said here. I'll take your word for it that this means something big.

I can't believe I became THAT disillusioned that I didn't even think there was a damn thing Trump could do that could ever get him in trouble. Turns out, he finally did something that Barr and the others can't cover up.

And now I'm reading those glorious words all over the internet: "Barr and Giuliani could be in big trouble". Couple that with Barr's deafening silence as of late and I think you're right--we may be looking at the end of Donald. The only question in my mind now is HOW and WHEN. Any ideas? I DON'T think he'll be removed via impeachment. I'm also skeptical as to whether or not a narcissist like him could EVER be compelled to resign, so where does that lead us? What do you think? You've been right about most of your predictions around here. How do YOU think Trump will be removed?

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I'm on record the other day saying I think a negotiated resignation where Trump is promised non-prosecution post-presidency for himself and his family members is the most likely outcome, as in over 50% better than a coin flip in my ad hoc 538 guesstimation. But some key things will need to happen before that outcome.

The biggest wildcard is still William Barr. Depending on how far along he got on his Death Star 2.0 project of discrediting the Russia probe and ginning up a prosecution of Clinton as Trump wants him to do, he's the one guy who has the smarts and Machiavellian instincts to turn things around for Trump.

While Pompeo, Rudy, and Pence publicly implode it's Barr's absence I find worrying. As the most duplicitous and cunning of the lot he needs to be neutralized. Pelosi has recognized publicly that he's gone rogue. They need to keep their sights peeled on him by impeaching him. Threatening indictments and Inherent Contempt of uncooperative witnesses really carries no weight without the cooperation of the DOJ which isn't happening under Barr's corrupt leadership.

Even more worrying, toadies like Lindsey Graham are contacting foreign leaders telling them to cooperate with Barr's bogus investigations to discredit the Russia probe. I didn't believe it at first since I'd been hearing extortion rumors since he's been in the Senate, but he's become such an asslicking sycophant from what he was just a few years ago as an anti-trumper that I don't know anymore. He acts exactly like you'd expect of a closeted politician the Kremlin has kompromat on.

[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

Barr has scared me from the beginning. The guy doesn't even feel like an AG. In fact--I can't really recall any point in my life where I've EVER heard of an AG taking such a massively public role in ANYTHING concerning a presidency. I always thought an AG was supposed to be a neutral figure and nothing more. Barr acts like a NAZI general. What gets me is they don't even try to hide what he's doing--he's openly in support of Trump and openly in defiance of his position.

I've always felt that Bush Jr. was quite corrupt but that is NOTHING--absolutely NOTHING--compared to what is going on with Trump's administration today. It's like a Jack Ryan novel playing out in real life.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I think what's really shocked me the most through this whole trumpian saga is just how susceptible longtime democratic institutions and agencies are to corruption when you've got corrupt leadership at the top. A fish really rots from the head down.

Like these internal Inspector General watchdogs in the FBI and CIA who are supposed to be fair and impartial arbiters to root out corruption when conducting internal reviews. They turn out to be so easy to cow and intimidate into producing the kind of dirt Barr wants to justify firing or prosecution of who Trump or Barr want to crucify. No one wants to end up on the receiving end of the kind of persecution this whistleblower and the ICIG sticking up for him is under now.

[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

Speaking of the whistleblower, I found it quite disturbing (not surprising--just disturbing) how Donald kept saying he "intended" to figure out the identity of this person and how "in the old days, we had different ways of handling people like this" and all the groups "dispatched" to try to confirm this person's identity. Almost feels like Donald is giving a wink-wink green light to anyone who wants to off the guy/gal.

Yet ANOTHER example of dictatorial behavior.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Like these internal Inspector General watchdogs in the FBI and CIA who are supposed to be fair and impartial arbiters to root out corruption when conducting internal reviews. They turn out to be so easy to cow and intimidate into producing the kind of dirt Barr wants to justify firing or prosecution of who Trump or Barr want to crucify. No one wants to end up on the receiving end of the kind of persecution this whistleblower and the ICIG sticking up for him is under now.

This is what I don't understand. When did this become the norm? I don't get it, myself.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 5 years ago

That presser was nuts. I like how Trump went on that rant about the US giving so much to Ukraine, yet Pompeo just got done criticizing Obama for not giving enough to Ukraine.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

The Europeans have the biggest grievance right now, having given Ukraine 3 billion euros and for that they get to see Zelensky trash them in that call transcript in his sycophantic attempts to flatter and suck up to Trump.

I think Macron and Merkel will forgive him though. They're political pros and understand he was between a rock and a hard place desperate for the aid Trump was holding over him. The EU's national security interests depend on Ukraine remaining a buffer zone between them and Russia.

I felt bad for the Finnish PM. You gotta feel sorry for the guy. I mean, under the best of circumstances a one-on-one meeting with Trump is torture for any serious, intelligent person.

And politically, these are far from the best of times…

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

to see Zelensky trash them in that call transcript in his sycophantic attempts to flatter and suck up to Trump.

I have to say I think Zelensky had no choice at that time. He wanted what was due him (his country), and if he had to flatter and suck up to T-rump to get it, so be it. I'm sure if there was any other way he would have gone a different route.

Just my opinion. I think Macron and Merkel can see why it happened, and they probably would've done the same.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I'm torn. On one hand I feel for him, but at the same time he's in WAY over his head. He was a fucking comedian playing a president on a tv show ... sound at all similar to another genius president?

He's in no way prepared for this and will probably be dead in an alley in a month or two (That's not unprecedented at all in Kyiv for prominent people).

Just last week he plead his case to the UN:

"There is no such thing as someone else's war," …
"None of you will be able to feel safe as long as there is a war in Ukraine, a war in Europe"

and that afternoon the President of the United States turns to him in a press conference and says, in front of the whole world, "I really hope you and President Putin get together and can solve your problem". DoH! The response from his other allies? Crickets. No one came out to pledge him moral support, let alone actual military backup. What is he supposed to do?

But Zelensky shouldn’t have come to play with the big boys if he can't play the game.

Poroshenko kept Russia at bay and the US on board all these years, Zelensky sells out and surrenders for nothing in months.

Pathetic.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Well, I credit him with engaging T-rump on the phone back on July 25. He's a hero (in my eyes) who has helped bring down our national nightmare (LOL).

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Ukrainians are calling him 'Monica Zelensky'. They don’t think he handled himself well and got pushed around.

What surprises me about that is the revelation Ukrainians were following US politics that closely in the late 90s to come up with that pun on Monica Lewinsky.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

What surprises me about that is the revelation Ukrainians were following US politics that closely in the late 90s to come up with that pun on Monica Lewinsky.

My God, I thought the same thing! They remember Lewinsky from 20 years ago??????

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I always have to remind myself just how US-centric the rest of the world is. This is another reminder.

For Americans, the idea of following another country's politics as close as your own is just weird. But yeah US exerts such outsized influence upon the rest of the world in all traditional channels of power; militarily, economically, politically, diplomatically, and in soft power cultural influences like Hollywood, fashion, style, and trends ... US remains an unrivaled force. I've heard the complaint by foreign nationals, not uncommon and half joking, that everyone in the world should be able to participate and vote in US presidential elections because US controls the world.

So yeah, it's true US politics is followed that closely. I'm not talking about the average shmoe on the street. I'd expect the average citizen in any random country to be generally clueless about US politics including your average US citizen. But for the educated and political literati outside the US, yeah they follow US politics as close as their own. I've seen this to be true with my upper middle class foreign relatives. I consider myself a political junkie immersed in geopolitics and marginally aware of the political machinations of most major countries, but I don't have anywhere near the grasp of detail in the politics of their native country as they do of US politics.

I'm reminded of that scene from Blood Diamonds where from South Africa, these two South Africans played by Jennifer Connelly and DiCaprio are watching the Clinton impeachment on TV and asking why they should be forced to care about a BJ.

[–] Gd5150 (11965) 5 years ago

Oh no this time it’s really the beginning of the end no really seriously this time for sure. Lmao! This will be a great throwback post.

https://youtu.be/6UeaYuWRVHM

[–] dteam6 (5073) 5 years ago

Donald may very well skate away from this one, unpunished, given how corrupt things are nowadays.

What I'm trying to figure out is what you find so funny about it. What's so funny about our country being THIS corrupt from all sides? I see nothing funny about it. I find it tragic. Hypocrites and criminals from both parties and here you are, laughing about it like a high school punk. You like corruption? You think it's funny?

Maybe if that corruption starts to affect your own life in a personal way you'll wake the fck up eventually. Of course, by then it will be too late for any of us to do anything about it.

Pathetic.

[–] chilone (18316) 5 years ago

Idiotic, wet dream, delusional thread.