Remember when gun massacres used to shock and numb us to the core? Now they’re as frequent as T-rump lying.
Today’s massacre happened at an El Paso TX WalMart where a gunman opened fire killing 18 innocent people.
Senator Ted Cruz, are your thoughts and prayers with them while you vote on behalf of the NRA? Too soon to talk about gun control?
When this happens there are always a couple of copy cat shootings. Pathetic!
sharehttps://www.texasmonthly.com/news/what-we-know-mass-shooting-cielo-vista-mall-walmart-el-paso/
but by late afternoon on Saturday, a racist “manifesto” indicating a desire to kill immigrants and reportedly penned by the shooter began circulating on social media.
Why the words of our leaders matter....if true at least 19 people are dead, including a 2 year old child, because of anti-immigrant sentiments.
FOX was staying clear away from the facts that this was a hate crime done by a white supremacist T-rumptard. As far away as they could from that important fact.
If they don’t report it, it doesn’t exist?
Say what you will about trump and his racism since no one can convince or cares to convinceyou other wise but don't ever think your gonna take away legal citizens defensive fire arms in this state.
shareAnother white supremacist Trump supporter.
This is the 250th mass shooting in 2019.
That’s 35 more than 1 per day.
shareyea but your mass shooting is defined as more then one person. Which includes all the chicago gang violence that gun laws are powerless to fix. The fact that this shooting happened in a gun friendly area (Although I don't understand why no one else was armed) is the anomaly.
shareWe are the laughingstock of the entire world. Seriously. Every single country in the world, no matter how effed up, is just shaking its head right now. My entire family comes from a messed up country (poverty, civil unrest, corruption) and even that country has never, ever, ever had a mass shooting. Like, ever.
share If your from Mexico, Columbia or el salvador your lying thrugh your teeth.
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings
The alt-right Senators and Congressmen will immediately retreat to the fall-back positions they always take whenever military-style assault rifles are involved in a mass-shooting like this one:
It's not a gun issue; it's a mental-health issue.
But in their case, it's more a lack of morality issue. Keep on cashing those donations from the NRA, Teddy and your fellow Republican scumbag pals.
It’s becoming a White Supremacist issue with each shooting thanks to T-rump.
shareAudible silence here from the trump trolls.
shareThe irony is that lefty arguments about banning "assault" rifles drives up gun sales. I just baught my first AR-15 last december cause of lefties like you.
shareWhaddya want--a medal? Have people tell you that you're a great American or something? You're part of the problem, idiot.
shareLaw abiding citizens that don't participate or succumb to criminal behavior are apart of the problem. No idiots like you that think we should all be sitting ducks by law are part of the problem.
shareSome law abiding citizen sold guns to the nutjobs and white supremacists who are killing.
shareAnd if thats the case that sucks but the reality is no one should be forced by law to be a sitting duck Minorities included. I'm hispanic my self are you advocating I be a sitting duck enforced by law should some white supremacist start shooting at me?
shareIf you're concerned with domestic terrorism then I suggest you contact Trump and have him refund the anti-domestic terror program which he defunded:
"The Department of Homeland Security’s “Office of Community Partnerships,” which oversaw the extremism program, had a budget of $21 million and a staff of 16 full-time employees and 25 contractors under Obama. The Trump administration rebranded it “The Office of Terrorism Prevention Partnerships” soon after taking office, cut its staff to eight full-time employees, and reduced its budget to less than $3 million."
Statistically, the states with weak guns laws have the highest gun violence which is why I won't go to unsafe red states.
No political leader is gonna solve this problem. So theirs no point in mentioning Trump or any democrat for that matter.
Thats amazing I won't go to blue states because of their stance on gun laws either.
I still am wondering if you advocate disarming and preventing me to respond to a while supremacist who would target me for being hispanic.
Trump and Republicans won't solve the problem since they are the problem. The Democrats can solve it in the same way as every Western country in the world has with sensible gun laws. see chart:
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/wdas8/4/
It sounds like you never travel since every Western country has sensible gun laws. Stay in your state hiding under your bed.
Are you going to contact Trump and your local representatives about refunding groups that fight domestic terrorism?
Why do you and your gun owner friends continue to sell guns to criminals and mass shooters? I consider you irresponsible.
This isn't another typical western country dude. There are 300million guns in this country and you have no way to get rid of them. A democrat will never be able to collect all these weapons even if they wanted to.
> Are you going to contact Trump and your local representatives about refunding groups that fight domestic
>terrorism?
What emotional straw man are you trying to pull now. Your the lefty why don't harass trump and his ilk. That's what leftys do so go do it.
> Why do you and your gun owner friends continue to sell guns to criminals and mass shooters? I consider you
> irresponsible.
I don't sell firearms to criminals and neither do my "Gun owner friends". I only have 2 weapons my self. The glock 19 and the AR-15.
And your still not answering my question if you care so much about minorities being shot by white supremacist why do you want to disarm me as I'm hispanic myself. I';m answering your questions can you at least try answering one or two of mine?
You’re so cool 😒
shareNo our thoughts are more along the lines of where the hell are all the LTC holders? I never go into a walmart with out my Glock 19 and 33rd extra mag in the other pocket. If Texas LTCs refuse to carry only outlaws will carry.
shareNow that’s a real man! Too scared to get the weekly shop in without carrying a gun 😂.
shareIts not about being scared. Its about being prepared. And while were at it considering your a lefty your opinion on what criteria defines a man already doesn't matter to me.
shareHow are you planning to prevent the police from mistaking you for the original gunman or accomplice and not kill you?
shareIf the police are already there then I'll let them handle it but we both know the police won't be there. Had the police been there the body count woulden't have shot up to 19 or 20. For example the idiot garlic fest shooter only got 3 people since the police were already there and shot the guy. The nut job barely had enough time to shoot himself at that point. Had the police not been there the body count would have skyrocketed. If the police are there I woulden't bother getting involed but when their not LTC holders should feel obligated to respond responsibly.
shareSo youre trusted with a gun, but you cant answer a simple question past your won hero worship? The cops will show up at some point, right? So when they do, and they see YOU, standing with a smoking hand gun and bunch of dead people littering the street...And back to Keelai's question...?
share And you think I'm still gonna be shooting when the police arrive? The event will be completly over as the suspect will either be dead or fled the scene. You think I don't know to drop a my firearm when the police do arrive? I know how to interact with the police stupid. I've been disarmed during traffic stops after the police are aware of my CHL/LTC. I am perfectly fine with the police being safe.
[deleted]
> And you call me stupid(eye roll). All these perfect senarios of yours, nothing can ever go wrong, right? Every thing
> is what is and no one gets shot by the police in error ever, right?
Apparently you don't even trust the trained police with a gun. Do you then advocate they be disarmed too?
> The hero that never for one second thinks he'll be the dead one. Just another idiot that saw diehard one too many
> times.
I know what the odds are and I never implied I was indestructible. I already know I can be killed long before I even draw a fire arm.
> The hero that never for one second thinks about the fact there might be another hero on the scene.
refusing to let people be gunned down like sitting ducks is not being a hero. I never said I was a hero but I do respond to threats.
> The hero that never for one second thinks about the fact that the police might surprise him, or that there might be
> more than one shooter.
Your not paying attention. I've already discussed the dangers of tunnel vision which is why people become unaware of more then one shooter.
> The hero that never for one second thinks about the fact that the police might surprise him, or that there might
> be more than one shooter.
I explained that above.
> In short, youre not a hero. Youre just another nutjob with a gun putting people lives at risk. You wanna be a cop,
> go to the police academy. Because youre "I have a licence" blah blah blah is just an alarm bell. Theres talkers,
> and then theres the real men. We already know which one you are.
In short I've never said I was a hero but my conscience doesn't allow me to just stand around letting people get gunned down knowing full well I have a fire arm on me. I no one cares what you think a real man is? you leftist cunt.
Plenty of chaos during a mass shooting. What makes you think you'll know who is where?
Another thing is that most people who carry guns when a mass shooting occurs don't use them. I watched a few of gun owners being interviewed and they didn't want to be mistaken for the gunman or there was too much confusion.
You're also assuming you'll be aware. A dark movie theater, texting on your phone or your back turned would make you a perfect target.
There is no reason for citizens to have access to military weapons. None.
> Plenty of chaos during a mass shooting. What makes you think you'll know who is where?
Obviously I won't point a gun untill the targets been identified, do you ask that of the police as well?
> Another thing is that most people who carry guns when a mass shooting occurs don't use them. I watched a few of gun
> owners being interviewed and they didn't want to be mistaken for the gunman or there was too much confusion.
Most responsible gun owners are hesitant to start shooing into a crowed as they should be. Responsible LTC holders will be trying to get as close to the target as they can but won't fire until they have proper target acquisition. We know the risks. LTC holders are trained not to fire into a crowed.
> You're also assuming you'll be aware. A dark movie theater, texting on your phone or your back turned
> would make you a perfect target.
I have a 800 lumen tactical light on my Glock 19. There would be no problem scanning for the target in the dark movie theatre. And the target would be blinded. Of course theirs a risk that texting on your phone or having your back turned lowers you success rate in stopping a mass shooting but that already assumes your the first one to get hit. Getting caught in tunnel vision is actually a bigger threat to surviving an exchange of gunfire, but your clearly missing the fact that being unarmed is the only way to make your self a "perfect target".
> There is no reason for citizens to have access to military weapons. None.
AR-15s arnen't automatic. No one in the military would want to use a semi-auto only weapon on the battle field. I have an AR-15 but don't expect it to be as usefull as a side arm in close quaters. Sure its fun at the range but in terms of an offensive weapon its only usefull against completly unarmed people. I'd rather have a side arm with extended ammunition magazines then a 9 lbs AR-15 that delays your ability to turn on a target.
I've done my research and speak from experience. I live in violent city and have exchanged gun fire with a local gang that attempted car jack me. I would not be here if I didn't have my LTC.
shareHave you had police or military training?
You'll get as close as possible to someone carrying an AK-47? LOL!
What if the gunman is at a window like the Las Vegas shooter? Most citizens can't hit a target over 25 yards.
Of course, there will be a crowd around you! That's the whole point of mass shootings therefore you'll be useless if you won't fire around them. That was another reason why gun owners didn't use them.
You're watching a movie and the gunman who is behind you shoots you in the head. You and your gun are now useless.
AK-47 and AK-15 are the rifles that mass shooters use.
Ask yourself why there are so many guns, but yet gun owners stopping mass shootings are practically nonexistent.
> Have you had police or military training?
I've had more training then the police are required to but not full military training. I've also been in hostile situations including an actual 3 on 1 exchange of gun fire and the event was actually a lot calmer emotionally then I was expecting. After that experience I don't really think people that have prepared them selves. Criminals doin't expect their victims to be armed and thats what gave me the edge. As more private citizens start responding to mass shootings the criminals are gonna quickly learn pulling a gun in a public place is no longer going to be easy for them.
> You'll get as close as possible to someone carrying an AK-47? LOL!
Clearly I'll assess each situation and when the opportunity to strike presents itself I'm not gonna hesitate. I never implied that I was gonna just blindly charge some one with an AK-47 clealy law enforcement and responsible citizens are gonna take practical approaches when they see it.
> Of course, there will be a crowd around you! That's the whole point of mass shootings therefore you'll be
> useless if you won't fire around them. That was another reason why gun owners didn't use them.
No. The crowed is running away from the shooter. Its rare for people to be immediatly around the shooter. What typicall happens is crowed flees and some people in the crowed for what ever reason start clustering together to hide and loose site of the shooter. The shotter then spots them at a distance and opens fire and is able to hit alot due to the victims being huddled together. The point is anyone that can hear gun shots will immediatly move away from the shooter which is where people know that the vector of the crowed usually points away from the shooter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Laizg39LsuQ
> You're watching a movie and the gunman who is behind you shoots you in the head. You and your gun are
> now useless.
In that hand picked scenario of course. The initial surprise attacker has a huge advantage but again your ignoring that the presence of a defensive fire arm owner being the first to get shot in the back of the head would end no differently that some one who is totally unarmed. And you ignore the fact that when your armed and not the first victim your survival rate goes up real fast.
> AK-47 and AK-15 are the rifles that mass shooters use.
Which is ironic as a sidearm with extended magazines would have been more effective. AR-15s are more and AK-47s are tuned for midrange combat. Also AK-47s have more powerful anmunition but are so inaccurate I can't image why they are so popular.
> Ask yourself why there are so many guns, but yet gun owners stopping mass shootings are practically
> nonexistent.
because most people won't get an LTC and carry a weapon with them. Most people leave their firearms in their home or car.
> What if the gunman is at a window like the Las Vegas shooter? Most citizens can't hit a target over 25
> yards.
For the people on the ground for sure you can't be expected to stop that kind of shooting. I admit their are times where its more tactically feasible to aid in the crowds behind a barrier in a situation like that but its a non-sequitur if your argument is if some one can't stop all mass shootings then no one should try and every one should be unarmed. You would never use that argument to disarm the police would you?
Most people who have their gun on them still don't try to stop a mass shooter which is what I originally wrote.
It makes more sense to prevent mass shootings in the first place. The Dayton shooter fired off 41 shots killing 9 people in 30 seconds. He was stopped not by a civilian, but the police.
Most of the time when civilians stop a gunman, they are not armed. Obviously, that's easier if the gunman isn't carrying military-style weapon.
"You would never use that argument to disarm the police would you?"
For the umpteenth time, you're not a cop.
This is perfect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dBiNGufIJw
>Most people who have their gun on them still don't try to stop a mass shooter which is what I originally
>wrote.
Even if I play your game(And believe me I don't) I still have the right to defend my self as a single individual.
My point is if your armed and not converned about getting into the fight your a selfish douche bag.
I never said you didn't . As a matter of fact, I'm a strong believer in self-defense. But, I have little faith that you can stop a mass shooter who has a military style weapon.
I'm not sure what the last sentence meant. Do you mean you should be ready to fight if you're armed?
> I never said you didn't . As a matter of fact, I'm a strong believer in self-defense. But, I have >little faith that you can stop a mass shooter who has a military style weapon.
Some one committing a massacre is unaware of who in the crowed is armed. People get tunnel vision all the time in a fire fight. Its why the dayton shooter and the garlic fest got taken down so fast. They had no clue that there were armed people in the crowed. They thought thought it was open season with no return fire.
Perhaps its just me by the AR-15 just doesn't feel like a powerfull military weapoin. Ther are a lot of more powerfull hunting semi-automatic rifles out their and of course the dreaded shotgun that feel like it would overwelm some one with an AR-15. Take a look at the actual rounds an AR-15 fires their pretty much 22 rounds with more powder and barrel but the round won't go through a 2 by 4 long ways. I guess what makes them deadly is the mags are standard 30 rounds and the recoil is so light your able to send more rounds down field in a tighter grouping. Also the barrel is long enought to greatly increase the accuracy of the gun which brings up my point that the AR is a medium range weapon more suitable for the battle field then close range encounters. I think copy cats are just using AR-16s cause their a) cheap b) have 30 rounds and c) copy cat monkey see monkey do.
Either way keelai we are not the enemy we are not the crininals doing this to society.
Military-style weapons don't only kill more people quickly, the bullets do more damage to the human body. They don't belong on the streets in the hands of civilians. Mass shootings are becoming deadlier because they are using more dangerous weapons.
The only reason to have a weapon like that is to kill as many people as possible which is why it shouldn't be in the hands of civilians.
Anyway, the Parkland activists are doing a great job at changing gun laws locally and registering young people to vote. Percentage of young people voting went up by 47% during the midterms.
https://marchforourlives.com/policy/
> Military-style weapons don't only kill more people quickly, the bullets do more damage
> to the human body. They don't belong on the streets in the hands of civilians. Mass
> shootings are becoming deadlier because they are using more dangerous weapons.
The military don't even use hollow point bullets. The bullets from an AR-15 are 5.57m nato or .223 which effectivly makes them 22 rounds. The only thing that makes them contenders with other guns is they carry a lot of powder behind them and they are rifles and of course they carry 30 rounds standard. If you want to kill some one in one shot you need hollow points of a 9mm or more. just last year two guys got hit 7 times by an AR-15 a few streets down from me but they survived.
https://www.facebook.com/kens5/videos/2207005439391251/?video_source=permalink
Just two days ago a 15 year old got shot in the face a mile south of me but survived the trip to the hospital before he eventually died. You don't hear stories like that when hollow points are concerned. And this kid was shot point blank.
https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/bizarre-drive-by-in-converse-leaves-two-shot-several-cars-damaged/273-596793742?fbclid=IwAR0PlQmLh1j6EEmla9hCEaq12fvR5lgULjb4Rq0KgBfpUrgp61Y3E3uqD2g
The southerland springs shooter (30 minutes southeast of my position) got hit with an AR-15 from a good guy with a gun forcing the suspect to flee. This good guy with a gun stopped the mass shooting but the troll was still able to limp to his truck and drive away. Thats just isn't going to happen if he was hit with a larger calibur round thats a hollow point.
That girl that girl who got shot in the head (yes she's dead I know) from close range by an AR-15 but strangly this supposedly powerful bullet didn't even exit her skull. I have to assume something was wrong with the gun cause even an AR-15 at close range should have exited her skull. This murder was from the same guy threatening me. So at lea
st he's done and won't bother me anymore. Like I said what stopped him from threatning me wasn't the cops but the knowledge that I had a weapon of my own.
Heres the article about the 15 year old a mile south of me. Supposedly they were playing a modified game of russian roulette (Doesn't make sense to me as the gun uses magazines.)
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/trending-now/15-year-old-texas-youth-fatally-shot-with-ar-15-rifle-police-say/973180002
Meet James striblin the convicted murderer who even knows good guys with guns are dangours to his health.
https://www.ksat.com/news/sapd-arrests-suspect-in-medical-drive-shooting-death-1
I'm sorry if these events in the latest few years of my life are preventing me from subscribing to your politics but I prefer being able to defend my self. 2016 was San antonios most violent year per capita since 1995 (1995 was the peak of gang activity in the City by the wayt). I couldn't rely on the police when Jay was threatning me(They said it was my word against his) I coulden't rely on them when I got car jacked it took them 19 minutes to get there after the fight was over. All I have is whats in my hand at the time of threaten and no democrate is gonna talk me out of carrying lawfully at the most and at the least won't disarm me via gun policy and gun regulations.
In other words, you're not a cop nor vet therefore no professional training. Civilians don't do well vs mass shooter.
Gang shooting isn't really a mass shooting. Different situation. I believe you should've given them the car instead of risk an innocent bystander(s) being hit by a stray bullet.
More private citizens won't get involved since the stats go back at least 30 years. Like I said, gun owners who stop a mass shooting are rare - especially civilians.
Mass shooters are looking for crowds. In other words, there will be people all around and some will be hiding or injured.
Parkland is where the deputy refused to enter and told other officers to stay away which emphasizes my point about behavior during a mass shooting. And he was trained!
I used to live in a high crime area too. Then the cops started doing their job by arresting criminals and now my area is much safer. Funny how that works.
Why are you against sensible gun laws? That's different from a complete ban. These three laws work best at lowering gun violence:
universal background checks, bans on violent offenders purchasing guns, and “may-issue” laws (which give police discretion in issuing concealed-carry permits).
> In other words, you're not a cop nor vet therefore no professional training. Civilians don't do well vs
> mass shooter.
I know your grabbing at straws trying to discredit my arguments but your totally ineffective. I can play that game too. "Have you ever had to defend your self from gunfire?". Then that makes me more qualified to argue with me.
> Gang shooting isn't really a mass shooting. Different situation. I believe you should've given them the
> car instead of risk an innocent bystander(s) being hit by a stray bullet.
And this is why criminals do what they do. Liberals like are enabling them to threaten the community which encourages their behavior. They woulden't do this to a cop cause they know a cop is armed and thanks to people like you they assume the rest of us arn't.
> I used to live in a high crime area too. Then the cops started doing their job by arresting criminals and
> now my area is much safer. Funny how that works.
Well that's awsome for you but from where I live the cops don't do shit and barely got to the scene 18 minutes after the shootout. I mean hell the ambulance arrive before the police did.
> Parkland is where the deputy refused to enter and told other officers to stay away which emphasizes
> my point about behavior during a mass shooting. And he was trained!
I agree the deputy was a coward and you shoulden't rely on the police. I feel the same about the pulse night club shooting. There is no excuse for not entering the building for the first 45 minutes after the police arrive. The point is while I think less of the LTC shooter staying out of the fight I'm not gonna fault him. But thats no argument to deny people the right to carry with an LTC.
> Why are you against sensible gun laws? That's different from a complete ban. These three laws work
> best at lowering gun violence:
> universal background checks, bans on violent offenders purchasing guns, and “may-issue” laws
> (which give police discretion in issuing concealed-carry permits).
I'm not against sensible gun laws. I actually advocate the texas LTC model that says if you have anything higher then a class C misdemeanor for disorderly conduct your denied an LTC. And that means I totally support background checks during purchases. I don't support may issue laws as that makes it to easy for local law enforcement to carte blanch deny every one with a clean record the right to carry. Shall issue laws simply state that if your records clean no one can deny you an LTC. And court documented mental disorders don't count as a clean record.
Your court documented mental illness makes no sense since it would exclude most sick people. An SSI or SSD recipient who cant work because of mental illness shouldn't be allowed to have a gun. Trump ended Obama's common sense ban. Today, Trump is spewing his BS about mental illness after making it easier for them to get guns.
AK-47s and AK-15s need to be banned for civilians. A gunman shouldn't have a more powerful weapon than responding police. It also makes it more difficult for people to disarm a gunman.
Only licensed sellers are allowed to sell guns. All guns should be registered. All guns with microstamping so it can be traced back to the registered owner. Legal gun owners are the ones selling them to criminals. They should be held accountable and imprisoned.
If you want to own a gun, then you need to be 100% responsible for it and keep it out of the hands of criminals. Ar stolen gun will mean you're fined. Twice and you're imprisoned and/or banned from ownership for two years.
Gun violence also costs $2.8 billion dollars each year. They should be taxed like cigarettes in order to recoup the money. Tax money can be used for law enforcement and to pay victims of gun violence.
Your court documented mental illness makes no sense since it would exclude most sick people. An SSI or SSD recipient who cant work because of mental illness shouldn't be allowed to have a gun.
You don't understand that most serious mental illness cases are NOT court documented. You would allow 99% of mentally ill people to have guns.
I mean a real tax. Cigarettes are taxed 44.3%. Gun taxes can be higher.
Silencers need to be banned. Wouldn't you want to hear a mass murderer coming?
Police don't normally walk around with AK-15s.
Not all guns are registered. Serial numbers can be filed off.
I want guns registered to a responsible gun owner. Too many guns are "stolen" or "sold" to criminals.
>You don't understand that most serious mental illness cases are NOT court
>documented. You would allow 99% of mentally ill people to have guns."
And that's different then now how? Just how do you intend to seperate the mentally ill from the rest of the crowed?
> Silencers need to be banned. Wouldn't you want to hear a mass murderer coming?
I still want one for the range though. "Silencers" only drop about 30 decibels. But yea I can see you point in wanting to ban them.
> Police don't normally walk around with AK-15s.
Because their more impracticle then people realize for close range combat.
but the station has plenty of them and I know of some police that carry them in the trunk.
> Not all guns are registered. Serial numbers can be filed off.
Gun registration is based off the serial number so how do you expect a gun to be regiustered at that point? We don't register guns to punish the victims of gun theft. We do it so the police can arrest the person in posession of a stolen firearm. The police routinly check my serial numbers when they become aware I have an LTC or firearm. And yes they seem to be obligated to check cause they always do.
I want guns registered to a responsible gun owner. Too many guns are "stolen" or "sold" to criminals.
Police Academy training is about 6-8 months. Military basic training is 7-12 weeks. Firing a gun doesn't make you more qualified than a cop or vet.
Idiots firing guns in public is still reckless endangerment.
Get off your butt and fight to get cops to do what your taxes pay them to do like people in my area did. Or move to a safer area.
Having sensible gun laws isn't the same as having no guns. Learn the difference.
> Police Academy training is about 6-8 months. Military basic training is 7-12 weeks. Firing a gun
> doesn't make you more qualified than a cop or vet.
And were did you get your combat training. Have you been in combat of anyform? If the answer is no then under your arguments I'm more qualified then you already to talk about gun policy. I'm not trying to discredit you its actually you attempting to play the shut up your untrained game.
Your argument is nonsensical. A civilian doesn't have more training and screening than a cop or vet.
You sound like someone who is insecure so you walk around with a gun to make up for it.
"If the answer is no..."
Funny you should ask. And my answer isn't really no.
> Your argument is nonsensical. A civilian doesn't have more training and screening than a
> cop or vet.
No my argument is that I'm more trained then you keelai, As your originally attempted to declare I'm unqualified to talk about gun policy cause I'm not a soldier or a police officer. Your the one that keeps bringing up cops and vets.
> You sound like someone who is insecure so you walk around with a gun to make up for
> it.
No I sound like some one who already tried to rely on the police after a few hostile encounters with felons with priors I got feed up with their lack of interest in enforcing the law despite witness to threats made against me. So I started arming my self. Why should a felon be the only one able to use a firearm and worse use it it a criminal fasion and not expect to get shot.
I have a girlfriends who's stupid ass daughter sleeping around with a violant drug dealer. She'd mouth of to him and would show up to my house all beat up. I already said I'm no hero and didn't want her in my house as she comes with drugproblems of her own by my girlfriend insists she stay there. As expected byfriend of the year start s showing up at my house threatning me with a gun to which the police don't do anything about. He knows how to dodge the police he knows their response time and their unwillingness to investigate or prosecute. He cut the power and tried to ambush me outside t he home when I was checking the breakers. The police were like "Its your word against his" despite having witness to his threats they acted like they coulden't prosecute so I got a CHL and a fire arm. And guess what he immediatly stopped fucking with me. Funny how that works.
He's in prison for life now as he shot a girl in the face. He alnost got away with it too. If it wasnt for the 911 taps capturing his voice and the fatale gunshot. His first shot woke up the whole neighborhood it seems then screaming and shouting and 4 minutes later the fatal gun shot.
"No my argument is that I'm more trained then you"
Non sequitur. My original point was that civilians don"t normally stop mass shooters. Police are better trained than a civilian and are more capable of stopping a mass shooter.
Police don't like to get involved in domestic disputes.
Plenty of drama around you. I live a nice boring life which is the way I like it. There are plenty of criminals, "people living the fast life" etc. especially where I grew up but I never associated with them. Most of my friends came from outside of my area.
Riffraff tend to ruin their lives and those around them which is why I keep them away from me.
If the mass killings and high crime in the U.S. continues, I'll probably arrange to live outside of the country part of the year.
>Non sequitur. My original point was that civilians don"t normally stop mass shooters. >Police are better trained than a civilian and are more capable of stopping a mass >shooter.
The arugment was non sequitur when you said I'm unqualified to discuss mass shootings and gun policy. Less then 1 in 4 officers have actually engaged in combat involving an exchange of gun fire in their careers.
>Plenty of drama around you. I live a nice boring life which is the way I like it. There
>are plenty of criminals, "people living the fast life" etc. especially where I grew up
>but I never associated with them. Most of my friends came from outside of my
> area.
>Riffraff tend to ruin their lives and those around them which is why I keep them
>away from me.
No argument their but that doesn't change the fact that I won't be disarmed due to what I've seen. These aren't my friends they are just baggage that came along with my girlfriends goddanm grown ass kids.
"Less then 1 in 4 officers have actually engaged in combat involving an exchange of gun fire in their careers."
Which is good. There are different ways to diffuse a situation besides taking out a gun and shooting someone.
"I'm unqualified to discuss mass shootings and gun policy. "
Nope, I never said that. I said civilians aren't normally good at stopping mass shootings.
No it means that cops are generally safe unless their up against a repeat felon that has nothing to loose by shooting at the cops to avoid going back to prison. I haven't seen really seem cops take the de escalation path. but I'll give them the benifit of a doubt. But I think its the scarcity of gun violence that actually keeps only 1 in 4 police from using their guns.
Cops are not safe.
Great article reiterates what I wrote:
"Good Guys With Guns' Can Rarely Stop Mass Shootings, and Texas and Ohio Show Why"
"... despite the presence of trained officers and armed civilians... gunmen can inflict horrific casualty counts within seconds, before anyone can respond.
Experts on violent crime say...relaxing gun laws to let more people to arm themselves has done nothing to prevent mass shootings.
“Unless you’re very well trained, you usually add more to the body count than you subtract,”
“The weaponry he had was so dangerous. Allowing citizens to continually be able to ratchet up the fire power available to them is really unwise policy.”
In Dayton, police were already nearby when the gunman, armed with an AR-15-style assault rifle fitted with a 100-round drum magazine opened fire. He fired at least 41 times in the seconds it took for six officers to respond and kill him.
“And there were probably loads of people carrying weapons around and they did nothing. You can’t expect them to.”
There was at least one armed citizen at Cielo Vista Mall near the Walmart in El Paso during the shooting. Army Pfc. Glendon Oakley said in interviews that he was carrying a licensed handgun and drew it when he heard the gunshots on Saturday. “That’s what you do,” he told the military publication Task & Purpose. “You pull your gun, you find cover and you figure out what to do next.”
But, he said he didn’t see the shooter and so instead focused on rescuing as many children as he could in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
“Carrying a concealed weapon is basically for the defense of yourself. It’s a whole different level of training and expertise to defend others,”
Only about one in five rounds fired by officers responding to shootings hit their targets. “It’s a very difficult thing to shoot in a room that’s full of people, while someone is shooting at you,”
https://time.com/5644578/good-guys-with-guns-el-paso-dayton/
> There was at least one armed citizen at Cielo Vista Mall near the
> Walmart in El Paso during the shooting. Army Pfc. Glendon Oakley
> said in interviews that he was carrying a licensed handgun and drew it
> when he heard the gunshots on Saturday. “That’s what you do,” he
> told the military publication Task & Purpose. “You pull your gun, you
> find cover and you figure out what to do next.”
> But, he said he didn’t see the shooter and so instead focused on
> rescuing as many children as he could in the immediate aftermath
> of the shooting.
Wow thats amazing. Thats like what I've been saying this whole time. You bring this up as if it was in contrast to the comments I've been makling.
> Only about one in five rounds fired by officers responding to
> shootings hit their targets. “It’s a very difficult thing to shoot in a
> room that’s full of people, while someone is shooting at you,
You don't fool me. Officers are trained to keep fireing untill the threat is over like the rest of us.
> “Carrying a concealed weapon is basically for the defense of >yourself. It’s a whole different level of training and expertise to
> defend others,”
He's being modest. I have no doubt he would have engaged the shooter had he seen the active shooter. And note that I'm advocating attacking active shooterts (That are already fireing) not at some one who is just acting threatening. The rules change once a person becomes an active shooter.
"Thats like what I've been saying this whole time."
No, you haven't. You said you would stop a mass shooter with your gun and I said "Nope, I doubt it since you're a civilian."
If anything, Oakley proves what I said is statistically true. People with guns are less likely to use them during a mass shooting. He didn't use it and he didn't stop the gunman. If anything, Oakley would've been more likely to be successful than you because he had military training and isn't a civilian like you are.
"Officers are trained to keep firing until the threat is over like the rest of us. "
Which increases the chance that a civilian gets hit in a chaotic situation like a mass shooting.
"I have no doubt he would have engaged the shooter had he seen the active shooter. '
He's law enforcement so he's trained to handle that situation. My disagreement was with a civilian knowing how to handle the situation or being effective.
> He's law enforcement so he's trained to handle that situation.
> My disagreement was with a civilian knowing how to handle the
> situation or being effective.
Thats your problem. You seem to think any gun enthusiest isn't qualified to make rational decisions about guns. Those no point in trying to reason just because your afraid to handle a firearm doesn't mean the rest of us don't know how to. And he's es military.
Your reading comprehension is poor. I wrote that a police officer or veteran is more qualified than a civilian to handle a mass shooter.
Simple concept. Why are you having such problems understanding it?
> Your reading comprehension is poor. I wrote that a
> police officer or veteran is more qualified than a civilian
> to handle a mass shooter.
Don't insult me. I've put up with your lack of critical thinking thus far with out resorting to insults. I'm not gonna wait for some one more qualified to show up to the fight. That will take way to long.
The cops will probably stereotype you as being a robber and shoot you once they arrive on the scene.
" some one more qualified'
Finally, you acknowledge that.
The cops will probably stereotype you as being a robber and shoot you once they arrive on the scene.
" some one more qualified'
Finally, you acknowledge that.
You did say you were more qualified than a cop:
"I've had more training then the police are required to but not full military training. I've also been in hostile situations..."
My repeated assertion was that civilians don't do as well during a mass shooting compared to a trained law enforcement agent. I only disagreed with your equating the training and skill level of both. Nothing else.
I said the police are only required to certify ones a year and most only go to the range once a year to prepare for the certrification.
share> "If the answer is no..."
> Funny you should ask. And my answer isn't really no
isn't reallyu no?
Then I'll ask was the combat legal and a defensive action or are you talking about your young days when you fired at some one cause you were pissed off and they were unarmed. Do elaborate.
Lawyers are expensive. People sue.
I know situations in which people rightfully used self defense or defended someone else and ended up in the poorhouse. Your self-defense can be questioned by law enforcement especially if it's lethal and you'll need a lawyer to defend yourself. Or you accidentally shoot an innocent bystander and their relatives sue you for wrongful death or personal injury.
BTW, I'm not saying never defend yourself. I'm saying there are different ways to do it and they don't always involve guns.
If your defending your neighbors house against theives when your neighbors not even there then yes thats illegal. The same can't be said about an active shooter thats already killing.
> BTW, I'm not saying never defend yourself. I'm saying there are different ways to do
> it and they don't always involve guns.
Yea I know there is pepper spray for when the situation doesn't warrent a fire arm. My firearm has only come out once during that grave exchange of fire. The firearm only comes out when the threate is already grave and aggrevated.
As for needing a lawyer for a self deffence case we all know the legal risks of defending ourselves the conventional wisdom is "Its better to be judged by twelve then buryied by six".
I never mentioned pepper spray. That doesn't always work.
The first rule of defense is to avoid unnecessary confrontation.
I also believe in a good offense. Trump's bigoted rhetoric has incited a few mass shootings now including the one is a mosque, a synagogue and in the Walmart.
Do you believe it would good sense to vote Trump and the Republicans out to disempower white supremacists, pass stronger gun laws, and refund the fight against domestic terrorism?
I never mentioned pepper spray. That doesn't always work.
The first rule of defense is to avoid unnecessary confrontation.
Does it bother you when Trump compares Hispanics to rodents or call Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals, and Hispanics migrants diseased and an invasion?
Both the synagogue and El Paso shooters were trying to stop the Hispanic invasion that Trump warns about during his rhetoric.
Your biggest threat is Trump who encourages his base to kill Hispanics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9AXGPo1vvM
Instead of walking around with a gun because you are scared of white supremacists, it would make more sense to neuter them by voting their leader and cowardly Senators out in 2020.
I don't recall any mass shooters specifically targeting Hispanics before Trump made it a popular thing to do.
I'm not sure why you would support someone who clearly hates you if you are indeed Hispanic. Do you have any self respect?
> Instead of walking around with a gun because you are scared of
> white supremacists, it would make more sense to neuter them by
> voting their leader and cowardly Senators out in 2020.
Your the one scared of white supremacists. I was carrying a firearm before trump got into officce. I simply ask that if your so danm concerned about my safty why deny my right to self defense against all the white supremacists that saturate the US according to your imagination. We have one white supremacist flareup and the sky is falling for you. You don't see me screaming muslim invasion after the pulse night club shooting or the san bernadino massacre or the Curtis Culwell Center attack. You don't see me scream OMG antifa gun nuts are taking over the country after the dayton shooting hours after el paso either.
You don't give a danm about lives. All you want to do is make this about trump and tow your party line.
> I'm not sure why you would support someone who clearly hates you
> if you are indeed Hispanic. Do you have any self respect?
I'm an American of Hispanic origin ass hole. The car jackers taking pot shots at me were also hispanic but even I know race has nothing to do with this. Lots of hispanics have firearms for defensive purposes and we clearly are not all democrat we have a good 60 40 split here in bexar county. The expectation that I should only be behaving in a certain way is the real racism here. Your using the "only true scottsman" fallacy, which is whats really disrespectful to me by implying that I shouldn't respect my self as I'm not a true hispanic. Your the new kind of racist that clings to identity politics and disrespects people who don't follow *YOUR* expecftions for their race. Your the real biggot here.
I don't like trump but untill your party keeps their hands off my right to self defence I will continue to vote republican.
You're the one who repeatedly said you need a gun to protect yourself from white supremacists because you're Hispanic. The Walmart survivors said that the shooter was only targeting Hispanics. The FBI just arrested over 100 domestic terrorists most of whom were white supremacists. They're coming for you since you are part of an invasion according to Trump and Fox news.
A politician calls you a rodent, rapist and criminal and you vote for him. Nope, you have no self-respect.
Don't fucking try to gaslight me. Your the one crying about white supremaists. And I'm voting for the party not for trump.
shareI find it funny that you become upset if you're forced to think for yourself.
"I'm hispanic my self are you advocating I be a sitting duck enforced by law should some white supremacist start shooting at me?"
That's your quote.
The Republican Party no longer exists. That's why so many Republicans have left the party. Only Trumpism exists which is opposite of many conservative values.
Do you know the difference between Trumpism and conservatism?
Anti-Hispanic Trumpism has decided to find places where Hispanics are (work sites, shelters)and conduct illegal raids (no warrants). It doesn't matter if you're legal or not. Citizens have been detained.
You feel nothing, I assume.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=humqaywTuP4
I find it funny that you become upset if you're forced to think for yourself.
Your quotes:
"I'm hispanic my self are you advocating I be a sitting duck enforced by law should some white supremacist start shooting at me?
I still am wondering if you advocate disarming and preventing me to respond to a while supremacist who would target me for being hispanic.
I never go into a walmart with out my Glock 19 and 33rd extra mag in the other pocket."
You are screaming about white supremacists although I don't see how that's an issue since they exist and are a threat.
You deflected since you couldn't define the difference between Trumpism and Conservatism.
You're stereotyping CA Hispanics while accusing me of stereotyping Texas Hispanics. What irony!
Be Best
Pointing out statistical trends between CA and TX hispanics/Latino isn't stereo typing.
And Trumpism is a bullshit term people like you invented so why would you expect me to compare and contrast it with conservatism. Conservatism by the way is yet another term you seem to think you have the authoirty to redefine to your liking as well.
Hispanics in CA and Texas both have conservatives and liberals. Statistically, both places have more liberals.
I learned the term Trumpism from Republicans who were concerned that Trump didn't have a traditional conservative agenda and values.
You claim to be conservative therefore can you define Conservatism? That's not a trick question since you should know why you support something.
Hispanics in CA and Texas both have conservatives and liberals. Statistically, both places have more liberals.
You can't define conservative.
shareI already know your game so I'm not gonna entertain your thought other then to ask what the hell is possessing you to even ask a question like that of me. Like what an insult to my intelligence I'm not gonna bother responding with a definition you will no doubt dispute with some kind of twisted language salad. In short I won't engage you on something as to be so elementary as conservatism.
share"Trumpism is a bullshit term people like you invented so why would you expect me to compare and contrast it with conservatism."
You're unaware of the difference therefore I doubt if you understand what core Conservative values are since Trumpism violates them.
Again, you avoid asking what should be a simple question.
You're unaware of the difference therefore I doubt if you understand what core Conservative values are since Trumpism violates them
The New York City Police Department training academy runs for about 6 months, out of which a grand total of 8 days is spent on firearms training. The vast majority of police have only the most basic level of proficiency.
shareYou're making my point. There is a lot more to learn than just firearm training when you're in law enforcement. They also go to the range to practice and qualify.
shareBut we are only actually talking about firearms in this discussion though. Also in Texas the average LTC holder has more range time then the police who for some strange only tend to hit the range once a year before re certifying.
shareI was never talking about firearms. I was only saying it was unlikely that you as a citizen would stop a mass shooter since that's statistically rare.
There is still more to being a cop than firing a gun. There are other skills that help them during a mass shooting.
I was never talking about firearms. I was only saying it was unlikely that you as a citizen would stop a mass shooter since that's statistically rare.
There is still more to being a cop than firing a gun. There are other skills that help them during a mass shooting.
Most Americans want sensible gun regulation. The only ones against it are the Republicans politicians who take money from gun lobbyists and the gun manufacturers who only care about profit. Only lunatics support civilians owning military-style weapons or sell their guns to criminals.
share> Only lunatics support civilians owning military-style weapons or sell their
> guns to criminals.
We simply disagree on what a military style weapon is. Your not qualified to distinguish who is a lunatic (ad hominem fallacy by the way) by thee choice of firearm. A lot of republicans could call you a lunatic as well and have a good argument yet I don't consider you a lunatic.
Powerful, semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines like the one used by the Dayton shooter should qualify. Nine dead in 30 seconds.
shareI'm actually suprised he pulled that off considering he was carring an heavy AR-15 with a 100 round drum magazine. There must have been scores of people in the crowed. Although I do think a discussion about setting a magazine round limit is in good order but I have mixed feelings as I doubt the gun control lobby will ever be satisfied and will drop it to something ridiculous like 7 rounds at which point we'll all go back to 45 hollow points as a 9mm no longer has the 15 - 17 double stack magazine advantage. I have two 33rd mags myself for the glock 19 which I think should be more or less the upper limit. The 33rd was intended for range fun only but ended up comming out during the car jacking as I was carrying it as a joke. I still advocate the 33rd magazine as my car jacking was 3 on 1.
shareMost people on the planet consider Americans lunatics re: gun culture and mass shootings. Do you ever watch foreign news?
Anyway, most Americans including Republicans want sensible gun legislation. It's only a matter of time.
BTW, military-style weapons were illegal until a few years ago.
Most americans think the rest of the world are pussies. You live in france or something?
shareMost Americans agree with the rest of the world about common sense gun regulation instead of accepting daily mass shootings as a new normal.
You're the one too afraid to leave your house without a gun. It sounds like you're the pussy.
Apparently it does, or you wouldnt have responded. And no, its about fear. Youre scared.
share What a straw man argument. Your just trying to shut me up cause you can't argue any points your making. All I see is your responding "I must have hurt your feelings cause your still responding to me". News flash genious no idiot like you is gonna talk me out of carrying my gun by using cheap comments designed to insult me as a man. Only a fool would disarm on nonsense like comments like those you make.
That wasnt a strawman argument. That was me flat out saying that anyone who needs to tell the world hes armed to the teeth going to a store, is all mouth.
shareNow your just not making any sense at all. Keliel is doing a better job then you and thats not good. Your done.
share[deleted]
Agreed.
shareI never go into a walmart with out my Glock 19 and 33rd extra mag in the other pocket.
I never go anywhere with out my firearm. If your little shop has a 30.06 sign on it then I refuse to shop at your store. We CHL/LTC holders arn't the problem.
For the record carrying past a 30.06 sign is only a Class C misdemeanor. A judge says shame on you you get maby a 200$ fine and you keep your gun and you can keep doing it again and again.
Out of disgust how ever I won't shop at your store eat at your restaurant or sit in your 30.06 cinima. There are plenty of gun friendly shops in Texas.
this is what happens when you wage a war on white people .. ..
this is your fkn result .. blame the diseased american liberals and their feminizing agenda.
you can't keep pushing without someone eventually pushes back. and muslims have shown them the way with all the killings of innocents in europe done by muslim invaders. i know all about that, i am from europe and have seen it myself.
😂 🤥
shareSo Muslims are responsible for the white supremacist who went out with the intention of gunning down hispanics? lol Jesus dude that is so fucking pathetic. I'm sure yesterday's shooter would be glad to know you have his back and are here to tell people it's not his fault..just a poor misunderstood white boy with a gun, right?
shareJust another 'lone wolf' - don't call him a terrorist.
share100 domestic terrorists arrest by the FBI in 2019 with most tied to white supremacists. White supremacists and Islamic terrorists have the same psychological profile.
share100 domestic terrorists arrest by the FBI in 2019 with most tied to white supremacists.
LOL!
sharedon't put words in my mouth you moron...... i said they have shown the way, with numerous attacks in europe. they have shown how to instill fear in the population
shareWords in your mouth? You said white people have been pushed too far and it was Muslims that showed them the way...if that's not making excuses for the white supremacist shooter and shifting blame to Muslims I don't know what is.
shareWhite supremacists have a long history of domestic terrorism or haven't you heard of the KKK and their lynchings?
shareyes, the KKK was aktive a long time ago. And was founded by democrats.
shareDINO. The progressives and liberals belonged to the Republican Party. The conservatives were the Democrats. The platform switch happened during the early 20th century.
"this is what happens when you wage a war on white people .. ..
this is your fkn result .. blame the diseased american liberals and their feminizing agenda.
Government, media and the private sector are run by white men. It sounds like you can't cut it in life and you're looking for scapegoats. Are you admitting that Trump didn't improve your life like he said he would? I did warn you Trumpites in 2016 that there would be no high-paying factory jobs. Trump is a conman and you fell for it.
They really, really fell for it. They’re embarrassed today.
shareTrump laughs after audience member suggests shooting migrants
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2019/may/09/trump-laughs-after-audience-member-suggests-shooting-migrants-video
That link and video is on a British new site. The world knows that Americans are gun nuts and Trump is inciting domestic terrorism.
That video is all over the internet tonight.
shareDoggiedaddy, another mass shooting today,Sunday, several killed including the shooter., several injured. When is this going to stop???!!! These killers are obviously mentally unbalanced, very disturbed men.
shareNot all domestic terrorists are crazy. You just need an angry or hateful person with a gun and a leader radicalizing him. They have been emboldened by the white supremacist in the White House.
shareRight you are.
It makes me sick to even think of what he's doing to our country.
shareso the were no shootings under clinton and obama?
Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho who killed 32 people would like a word with you.
wow, american dems and libs are incredibly stupid. Low IQ is their trademark. It's easy to see.
Bwahahahaha! And what about the idiots who voted for Orange Head???
shareThe difference is that mass shooters are quoting Trump or are saying in their manifestos that Trump inspired them.
shareIt's going to stop (eventually) when the GOP comes to their senses and passesfederal and state legislations for gun control, especially banning the sale and manufacture of certain types of semi-automatic firearms and magazines with more than ten rounds of ammunition.
It's going to stop (eventually) when the GOP calls out T-rump for what he is - a racist and white supremacist who's words and actions encourages this terrorist behavior.
The Republicans won't do that since they take money from the NRA. Democrats need to take the White House, Congress and Senate in order to pass legislation that most Americans want.
share