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Rule of Two?

posted 8 years ago by LostKiera
8 replies | jump to latest

Is it me or do the Sith in the first 6 films not really bother with the Rule of Two?

Based on the pre Force Awakens canon:

During the events of the Phantom Menace, Plagueis was Sidious' master and Maul was Sidious' apprentice. Sidious apparently killed Plagueis while Padme returned to Naboo. Unexpectedly, Maul was defeated and thought dead, meaning the number of Sith went from 3 to 1.

Sidious took on Dooku as his apprentice so they were back up to 2. But then Dooku took on Ventress as his apprentice and also taught at least something of the Jedi arts to Grievous. So arguably there were 3 or 4 Sith present right then.

Dooku gets rid of Ventress on Sidious' order so they're back to 2 (or 3 if Grievous counts). But Dooku seemed to believe Anakin would be joining them too making it 3 or 4 (of course Sidious intended for Anakin to replace Dooku rather than join him).

So when Anakin kills Dooku, he doesn't join Sidious immediately so the number of Sith is down to 1 or 2 (Grievous' status becomes even harder to grasp with his master now dead. Obi-Wan kills Grievous so that gets rid of that particular question mark. And then Anakin joins Sidious as Darth Vader. So we're back at 2.

Of course then Vader takes a secret apprentice in Starkiller. So this arguably makes it 3. Except Starkiller was never a real apprentice, Vader was using him to lure the Rebellion into a trap where he would kill them all and Starkiller. So it's safe to say the Rule of Two was actually being followed here.

Then Luke comes into it and it all gets very confusing. Sidious gives Vader blessing to recruit Luke to the dark side. But surely he would not intend to be overthrown nor would he expect Vader to just step aside. So it seems Sidious was at least on the surface condoning there being 3 Sith.

Vader offers Luke the opportunity to overthrow the emperor and rule together which would make it 2. But did he actually intend this or was it merely a way to lure Luke to the dark? In which case he's still going for 3 as Sidious seemed to want.

In Return of the Jedi, Vader has abandoned any attempt to get Luke to help him overthrow Sidious. Presumably he therefore thinks Sidious wishes Luke to join them rather than replace him. Sidious seems to go along with this at first but when Luke defeats Vader he offers him the opportunity to take Vader's place at his side. So was Sidious always intending this or was it a last minute change in strategy when he recognises just how strong Luke is?

[–] LostKiera 8 years ago

Hmm that actually makes a lot of sense.

[–] Kruleworld 8 years ago

a Sith Lord always has one apprentice
Same interpretation here. There were apparently thousands of Sith during their heyday. It's probably dangerous to take more than one apprentice at a time, causing conflict due to favouritism and competitive (sibling-like) behaviour.

"He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok"

[–] Jeorj Euler 8 years ago

I took it to mean: when one Sith is revealed, there is always exactly one more out there. Looking at it through the prism of the Luke's final right with Vader, it seems like: the Sith Order can only be destroyed if all (both) of the Sith are destroyed at once. Of course, the point of the scene with Yoda and Mace discussing the "rule" was just to clarify that Maul's master was just as much of a Sith as Maul himself, since Sidious hadn't been explicitly identified as such and wouldn't be until Dooku told Obi-Wan about Sidious. On average there are two Sith at a time, but indeed sometimes there are three or just one.

[–] Nocountryforoldmovies 8 years ago

Its all about power.

When your power eclipses mine I will become expendable. This is the Rule of Two: one Master and one apprentice. When you are ready to claim the mantle of Dark Lord as your own, you must do so by eliminating me.
Darth Bane, to Darth Zannah

One sith to embody power, the other to crave it.

I always thought sidious was so evil that he abandoned the banite system.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls063670214/

[–] LostKiera 8 years ago

My (very limited) knowledge of the EU was Plagueis was so afraid of death that he wished to end the Rule of Two which Sidious saw as a weakness.

I suppose one could look at it as Sidious was always in favour of the Rule of Two but perhaps hid it from the other Sith:
- Secretly he wished to kill Plagueis and have just himself and his apprentice (Maul), but he kept this hidden from Plagueis and pretended he too was in favour of scrapping the Rule of Two.
- He never intended for Dooku and Anakin to both serve him at the same time though he pretended to Dooku that he did.
- He never considered Ventress, Grievous or Starkiller proper Sith but merely tools to dispose of whenever it suited.
- If he could have turned Luke, he would have immediately had him kill Vader.

[–] Nocountryforoldmovies 8 years ago

I think he ultimately used the rule of 2 for his own gain instead of having his apprentice surplant him. Which is more like the rule of one, sidious believed that the rule of 2 would result in a being with no equal, so no more reason for the rule of 2 to keep the sith strong. Even during plageuis' tutelidge and while under his apprenticeship he began training maul and dubbed him a sith lord. Youre right in saying plageuis didnt believe in the rule of 2 but neither did sidious.
In the new vader comics sidious is trying to replace vader.
I would say sidious believed he was the culmination of the rule of 2 and therefore didnt carry it on as darth bane intended.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls063670214/

[–] LostKiera 8 years ago

Makes sense.

[–] Nocountryforoldmovies 8 years ago

That is why i think the prequels are subtley genius. They introduced the mythology of the sith and the banite system. Plus no matter how you feel about them it gives you insight into characters from the o.t trilogy.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls063670214/